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Official 2005 MLB Season thread (pg. 68)
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
you mean bobby cox? the one who has managed to bring the braves to the postseason every year since the birth of jesus and yet has only 1 WS ring to show for it?
i would rather take torre hehe
yeah I don't watch many yankee games, but those that I have watched torre seems to have done a good job and (almost always) made all the right moves...
i would also like to add mike scioscia to my list of above average managers. but when it comes down to it, torre is my pick.
just a thought: it would be funny to see torre fired, and then red sox hiring him. i know francona has a year left on his contract, but oh well... |
Joe Torre has one of the worst qualities that any manager could have: Playing favorites.
Also, Sciossia has made some pretty dumb moves, even over this past week. Why is Garret Anderson playing LF while the clearly better defender, Juan Rivera, DH's?
And look at the team that Cox had to work with. Torre would not have benched veterans and played the young kids in RF and LF. |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
Are you telling me that Buck Showalter would have gone on to win 4 World Series as Yankees manager from 96-2000? :rolleyes:
Torre came in at the right time and he still belongs. No Yankee fan wants to see him go. Playoffs ten straight years, 6 pennants, 4 World Series...come on...an average manager? Get real.
Scotty Bowman always played favourites...is he an average coach? |
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| Shamez214 |
Anyone could get to the playoffs with the teams he's had over the last 5 years. Yet no championships. Interesting...
Also, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here because I think, in Baseball, the Manager is responsible for maybe +/- 2 wins/loses over the course of a year. |
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| Dj Smitty20 |
Torre at least deserves the right to finish his contract. I doubt he'll stay past 2007 anyway, but he's a big reason why they've been so successful. His attitude and leadership have been talked about by many players the last ten years and the possibility of playing for him is another big reason the Yanks' are able to lure free agents like Randy Johnson. Jeter has said more than once that he'd never want to play for anyone else.
Anyway, I don't think any Yankee fans on here will say they want him fired and I doubt Steinbrenner will do so. Cashman, on the other hand, is as good as gone, along with Bernie Williams.
With the right acquisitions to the bullpen, the Yanks will still contend for another WS next year. |
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| Magnetonium |
I have to agree with Joe Torre being NOT a great manager. The team is stacked with several possible future hall of famers and stars who dont even respect him. I bet if you put me as a coach of Yankees I can get them a winning record. With the payroll like the Yankees have its not that hard to make the playoffs. But to do something in the playoffs is something else.
I think Bobby Cox is better coach than Torre, but not the best - one of the best. He does have a serious problem when it comes to playoffs, and since 2000 under pressure juggled with rotation and playoff roster to no big success. What I found out about Cox is that he makes a team good for a long run - a stretch of regular season. Put the playodds are quick, and he simply cannot put up a good plan for something so "tight". I liked the coach of Marlins more (who resigned this year - I am not good with names) and Frank Robinson. Nationals' coach is pretty impressive - I've seen him make some great moves this year - too bad the team collapsed in September. I do think that Mazzone is one of the greatest pitching coaches EVER - look what he did to Jorge Sosa, Ortiz (now SUCKING in Arizona) - brought back the best in Hampton! to name a few examples of recent years.
As for general managers, I dislike moneyball managers like Steinbrenner (for obvious reasons - seen in playoffs). This year, I am quite impressed with Brewers the most (have a great future!), also Braves (DUUUUH!), Cardinals, Indians, Red Sox and Blue Jays (what have they done with small playrolls!)/ |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
Torre at least deserves the right to finish his contract. I doubt he'll stay past 2007 anyway, but he's a big reason why they've been so successful. His attitude and leadership have been talked about by many players the last ten years and the possibility of playing for him is another big reason the Yanks' are able to lure free agents like Randy Johnson. Jeter has said more than once that he'd never want to play for anyone else. |
They didn't really have a proper send-off for Bernie, huh?
I never said Torre should be fired. There aren't many times where I think a manager should be fired. Basically, only if the team tremendously under-achieves.
And maybe Jeter said that because... he never has played under anyone else? |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I have to agree with Joe Torre being NOT a great manager. The team is stacked with several possible future hall of famers and stars who dont even respect him. I bet if you put me as a coach of Yankees I can get them a winning record. With the payroll like the Yankees have its not that hard to make the playoffs. But to do something in the playoffs is something else.
I think Bobby Cox is better coach than Torre, but not the best - one of the best. He does have a serious problem when it comes to playoffs, and since 2000 under pressure juggled with rotation and playoff roster to no big success. What I found out about Cox is that he makes a team good for a long run - a stretch of regular season. Put the playodds are quick, and he simply cannot put up a good plan for something so "tight". I liked the coach of Marlins more (who resigned this year - I am not good with names) and Frank Robinson. Nationals' coach is pretty impressive - I've seen him make some great moves this year - too bad the team collapsed in September. I do think that Mazzone is one of the greatest pitching coaches EVER - look what he did to Jorge Sosa, Ortiz (now SUCKING in Arizona) - brought back the best in Hampton! to name a few examples of recent years.
As for general managers, I dislike moneyball managers like Steinbrenner (for obvious reasons - seen in playoffs). This year, I am quite impressed with Brewers the most (have a great future!), also Braves (DUUUUH!), Cardinals, Indians, Red Sox and Blue Jays (what have they done with small playrolls!)/ |
You dislike moneyball GMs? Moneyball as in Billy Beane? Or are you saying teams who spend a ton of money? Because the Red Sox spend a lot of money. And the Indians/Braves/Blue Jays all loosely follow the moneyball mantra.
And dude... Jack McKeon and Frank Robinson are HORRIBLE managers. Though, no where near as bad as Lloyd McClendon or Dusty Baker. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamez214
You dislike moneyball GMs? Moneyball as in Billy Beane? Or are you saying teams who spend a ton of money? Because the Red Sox spend a lot of money. And the Indians/Braves/Blue Jays all loosely follow the moneyball mantra.
And dude... Jack McKeon and Frank Robinson are HORRIBLE managers. Though, no where near as bad as Lloyd McClendon or Dusty Baker. |
I meant in Moneyball as Steinbrenner who buys the best players and the biggest stars and dumps the best of his farm system and interferes with the team - and doesnt get the best talent, if you know what I mean. But I have to agree with you on what you said about the "moneyball mantra" - I hope you understand my point though, better illustrated in this post.
As for McKeon and Frank Robinson - I guess I see things differently - I have respect for those guys :D |
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| Mebot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
As for McKeon and Frank Robinson - I guess I see things differently - I have respect for those guys :D |
Same here... |
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| SlackerBoy9 |
| Shame Mckeon was swept away by the Marlins,all things considered i thought he did a great job.I can't wait to see what team gets Bobby valentine out of Japan...most amusing manager i have ever seen |
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| Shamez214 |
Case closed. :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :haha: :haha: :haha: :stongue: :haha: |
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by SlackerBoy9
Shame Mckeon was swept away by the Marlins,all things considered i thought he did a great job.I can't wait to see what team gets Bobby valentine out of Japan...most amusing manager i have ever seen |
When I was a freshman at UPenn in 2000, I attended a talk that he gave on campus. Great speaker, very honest and a funny man. He had fun being critical about some of the players (I remember getting a good laugh about what he said about Rickey Henderson) and some of the moves that management made (He wasn't happy about Masato Yoshii being released.)
The next day, we find out that one idiot posted these comments on a message board and got contacted by Steve Phillips directly demanding that he know everything that Bobby V said during the speech. We're suddenly on ESPN and had our 15 seconds of fame over this whole fiasco.
As much fun as we had with getting the free publicity, we knew this one moron sorta hurt our chances for getting more sports related speakers in the near future.
http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/v...1d?in_archive=1 |
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