|
:::Your-:~Pic7arS~:-Thread::: (pg. 105)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
My parents are from Hong Kong but they immigrated to Holland ages ago, so I'm born as a Dutch.
Cantonese was also the first language I've learned. I attended Chinese lessons on Saturday with a bunch of other Chinese kids like me, who were also born in Holland. I was never much interested in that - I didn't have much of a say in it as a kid - so I didn't learn as much as I should've. Once you stop taking lessons and don't keep it up with reading, watching Chinese tv, you forget how to write characters very fast.. I still recognize a quite a bit when I try to read it (though I miss the essential words so kind of pointless), but writing doesn't get me far.
I might go to China to learn Mandarin someday though :) I've got a real advantage knowing how to speak Cantonese and I like the idea of living abroad for a while. |
You speak Cantonese? That's awesome! I find the language fascinating, though I've never really had much time to study it... and I'd have no one to talk with anyway :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
How do you learn Japanese, lessons or self taught? |
A little bit of column "a", a little bit of column "b". I studied Japanese at the University of Brasilia where I graduated and now teach. However I had to study on my own quite a few times, and I was somewhat lost inside the Japanese colony around here, so I had many opportunities to use the language. |
|
|
| Unique2701 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
You speak Cantonese? That's awesome! I find the language fascinating, though I've never really had much time to study it... and I'd have no one to talk with anyway :p
|
Oh, I never heard anyone saying that they find Cantonese fascinating..! How come? :)
I find it interesting that (as you may know) we choose different words when we speak than when we write for some words. For example, 說 (to say) is the word we use to write with, but we wouldn't use this through oral communication. We would use 廣 (not entirely sure this is how you write it) which means exactly the same but that you pronounce in a whole different way.
| quote: |
A little bit of column "a", a little bit of column "b". I studied Japanese at the University of Brasilia where I graduated and now teach. However I had to study on my own quite a few times, and I was somewhat lost inside the Japanese colony around here, so I had many opportunities to use the language. |
Wow, respect! It's not an easy language to learn, is it? Such long pronouncations.. I'd love to be able to speak Japanese but I'm too lazy to learn a whole new language. I like a lot of books from Japanese writers, would love to read some of it in Japanese to see how different it is from their English translation and not all of it is translated.
Have u ever studied in Japan? Btw, a Japanese colony in Brasil? LOL
Are there lots of Chinese ppl too? |
|
|
| tubularbills |
HEY! You all need to watch your language in here :mad:  |
|
|
| Lira |
Which language, Tubs? :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
Oh, I never heard anyone saying that they find Cantonese fascinating..! How come? :) |
Unfortunately, I think Mandarin ecplipses all other Chinese languages and, if you're not really acquainted with them, you're bound to think Cantonese is just "a dialect", a different way of speaking Mandarin as British English is a different way of speaking English to most Americans (when the difference is much much more profound than that).
But, yeah, I wish I had more time to study Cantonese. It's quite different from Mandarin, isn't it? I remember I picked up some introductory lessons and it made no sense to me at first!
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
I find it interesting that (as you may know) we choose different words when we speak than when we write for some words. For example, 說 (to say) is the word we use to write with, but we wouldn't use this through oral communication. We would use 廣 (not entirely sure this is how you write it) which means exactly the same but that you pronounce in a whole different way. |
That's called diglossia, and the extent to which the written language differs from its spoken counterpart is different depending on the language... that's probably a case in which the written language failed to "catch up", and I'd bet that's more of an archaic word. Isn't it?
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
Wow, respect! It's not an easy language to learn, is it? Such long pronouncations.. I'd love to be able to speak Japanese but I'm too lazy to learn a whole new language. I like a lot of books from Japanese writers, would love to read some of it in Japanese to see how different it is from their English translation and not all of it is translated. |
Japanese is not really difficult: the grammar is more complex than Mandarin, but it's a lot easier for us that speak an European language to pick Japanese up than another East Asian language, specially because of the pronunciation (I had some trouble with the intonation in Mandarin, and my head almost exploded when I saw how the tones in Cantonese work :p).
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
Have u ever studied in Japan? Btw, a Japanese colony in Brasil? LOL
Are there lots of Chinese ppl too? |
I've just been once to Japan for 20 days, as a tourist, didn't have the chance to study there. As for the Japanese colony, Brazil is home to the largest Japanese colony in the world, though it's scattered accross the Brazilian territory, rather than just in one city.
And, strange as it is, there are some Chinese immigrants in São Paulo but very few of them here where I live (Brasília). I for one would welcome the presence of more immigrants from China... though I wish there were more immigrants as a whole :p |
|
|
| montana |
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
Have u ever studied in Japan? Btw, a Japanese colony in Brasil? LOL
Are there lots of Chinese ppl too? |
brazil is not only the second , actually i think it would be the third since most of them who escaped went to argentina instead, home to the nazis, there is alot of japanese people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilian there be info here aswell, but they left out the part of godzilla seeking refuge in the harbours. |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by montana
brazil is not only the second |
The second? It's the first :conf: |
|
|
| Unique2701 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Unfortunately, I think Mandarin ecplipses all other Chinese languages and, if you're not really acquainted with them, you're bound to think Cantonese is just "a dialect", a different way of speaking Mandarin as British English is a different way of speaking English to most Americans (when the difference is much much more profound than that).
But, yeah, I wish I had more time to study Cantonese. It's quite different from Mandarin, isn't it? I remember I picked up some introductory lessons and it made no sense to me at first! |
The written language of Cantonese is the same as Mandarin, just the pronouncation is a bit different. You can think of it a bit as the difference between Dutch - German.
I guess what makes Cantonese more difficult to learn is the difference between the written language and its spoken counterpart. This difference doesn't exist in Mandarin. That might be the reason why the written language can't change to the spoken counterpart. The written language is more formal, polite. I can't really say if it's an archaic word which I used as my example, as I've been familiar with it my whole life.. 
| quote: | As for the Japanese colony, Brazil is home to the largest Japanese colony in the world, though it's scattered accross the Brazilian territory, rather than just in one city.
|
This and Tony's wiki article is quite interesting.. I had no idea :p |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
The written language of Cantonese is the same as Mandarin, just the pronouncation is a bit different. You can think of it a bit as the difference between Dutch - German.
I guess what makes Cantonese more difficult to learn is the difference between the written language and its spoken counterpart. This difference doesn't exist in Mandarin. That might be the reason why the written language can't change to the spoken counterpart. The written language is more formal, polite. I can't really say if it's an archaic word which I used as my example, as I've been familiar with it my whole life.. |
Would it be accurate to say you speak Cantonese but write in Mandarin, then?
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
This and Tony's wiki article is quite interesting.. I had no idea :p |
Yeah, this is not exactly well known abroad, but it's all right. In a hundred years or so they'll probably be assimilated just like all the other colonies anyway :D |
|
|
| Unique2701 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Would it be accurate to say you speak Cantonese but write in Mandarin, then?
|
Nah, people don't make a distinction between that for the written language. We just call it all Chinese. The only distinction we make and is what I forgot to say is that we use traditional characters for writing as Cantonese people, whereas they use simplified characters in mainland China in general (except maybe Guangzhou, just across the border with Hong Kong where they speak Cantonese more).
for example 馬 - horse with a traditional character, the simplified character for it is 马. It's usually the same aspects within a character that they choose to simplify or leave out :) |
|
|
| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
You can think of it a bit as the difference between Dutch - German. |
This seems preposterous. Dutch and German are so wildly different. The few Germans I have known, can't understand Dutch with any consistency. It may work the opposite way though, that Dutch speaking natives can understand German pretty well, but I am unsure on this.
ps: I took German for 3 years, and could barely get a few words that the Dutch would speak, but could almost fully understand everything someone would say in German. |
|
|
| Unique2701 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
This seems preposterous. Dutch and German are so wildly different. The few Germans I have known, can't understand Dutch with any consistency. It may work the opposite way though, that Dutch speaking natives can understand German pretty well, but I am unsure on this.
ps: I took German for 3 years, and could barely get a few words that the Dutch would speak, but could almost fully understand everything someone would say in German. |
Most Dutchies can speak a fair bit of German. Some words are pretty similiar but some others can be very different indeed. What I meant to say with it, is that by giving it a certain twist, you can get very close to saying it correct in German/Mandarin, but you can also be totally miss. |
|
|
| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Unique2701
Most Dutchies can speak a fair bit of German. Some words are pretty similiar but some others can be very different indeed. What I meant to say with it, is that by giving it a certain twist, you can get very close to saying it correct in German/Mandarin, but you can also be totally miss. |
Yeah the Dutchies understanding and speaking more German than Germans understanding and speaking Dutch was something I had heard (long ago, but never knew anyone that could speak Dutch at that time) but was never confirmed. As for the differences, I understand what you're saying, but still have some reservations. Since I know my aunt and a former co-worker both speak Cantonese, but I know that the former co-worker can't really understand a lot of Mandarin. She only knows the simplified stuff for the most part.
My aunt was born in Shanghai and lived there till about 5 or 6 years ago, when she married my uncle and moved to the US. |
|
|
|
|
