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Edm Genres? (pg. 36)
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| Earthsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
In order for us to properly allocate different styles of music to their appropriate genres they must first meet generally accepted criterions for their placement. In the case of "EDM" it can more or less be summed up as music that relies, or is definingly characterized by electronically produced sounds. Since rap can subsist without anything in the ways of electronic devising, then I'm afraid it can't be regarded as a real form of EDM, although it may employ many attributes of this style. |
Understood. That's where we disagree. I don't believe that a genre has to necessarily "rely" on an electronic accompliment for it to be considered EDM. In many pieces of music classified under "rap" or "hip hop", there is a true instrument or beat. However, in just as many, if not more rap or hip hop tracks arises a primarily electronic beat. Therefore, it is in my best interest to consider this type of music as yet another brick that makes the house of EDM because it does employ many attributes. |
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| emperorhui |
| quote: | Originally posted by Earthsnail
Understood. That's where we disagree. I don't believe that a genre has to necessarily "rely" on an electronic accompliment for it to be considered EDM. In many pieces of music classified under "rap" or "hip hop", there is a true instrument or beat. However, in just as many, if not more rap or hip hop tracks arises a primarily electronic beat. Therefore, it is in my best interest to consider this type of music as yet another brick that makes the house of EDM because it does employ many attributes. |
Does the fact that more rap or hip-hop tracks have an electronic beat [or background music] mean that you can simply forget about classic rap and freestyling, which might not have electronic accompaniment[sp?]? If you add this genre to EDM, and people find exceptions in classic rap, then is EDM still electronic? It almost seems as if you are inclined to confuse others. Unless our purpose here is to make our musical definitions as cryptic as possible, this makes little sense. Wouldn't the average person who knows nothing about EDM want to have a clear definition rather than being bogged down with exceptions? |
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| Aramis |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
no it's a culture!
WHy would i buy anything?
Don;t u have to go watch Lleyton Hewitt fail miserably then stick it to your joey? |
I'm underwhelmed by your command of the English language. While your ignorance is mildly amusing in a sad sort of way, you're a living reminder of the old adage "It's always the thickies that think they're clever."
You would "buy anything" because you're an ignorant, gullible twat :p |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aramis
I'm underwhelmed by your command of the English language. While your ignorance is mildly amusing in a sad sort of way, you're a living reminder of the old adage "It's always the thickies that think they're clever."
You would "buy anything" because you're an ignorant, gullible twat :p |
i still dont understand how i am gullible...care to elaborate? |
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| Aramis |
Just out of curiosity, why do so many posters feel the need to define the boundaries and contents of the imaginary box that they keep their musical taste in?
When someone asks what kind of music I like, I tell them I like trance, eurodance and a smattering of prog. If they know what I'm talking about then I'll expand on it. If not, then further explanation would be a waste of breath. |
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| Earthsnail |
| quote: | Originally posted by emperorhui
Does the fact that more rap or hip-hop tracks have an electronic beat [or backgroung music] mean that you can simply forget about classic rap and freestyling, which might not have electronic accompaniment[sp?]? If you add this genre to EDM, and people find exceptions in classic rap, then is EDM still electronic? It almost seems as if you are inclined to confuse others. Unless our purpose here is to make our musical definitions as cryptic as possible, this makes little sense. Wouldn't the average person who knows nothing about EDM want to have a clear definition rather than being bogged down with exceptions? |
basically...
Most of the time, rap is EDM. But some of the time it's not. Either way, I think that rap or hip hop can be considered EDM at times because is uses and electronic beat. Is this uncryptic enough for you? |
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| emperorhui |
| quote: | Originally posted by Earthsnail
basically...
Most of the time, rap is EDM. But some of the time it's not. Either way, I think that rap or hip hop can be considered EDM at times because is uses and electronic beat. Is this uncryptic enough for you? |
Keywords there are 'at times'. You want specifics in dealing with definitions. Keep reading and allow me to elaborate.
| quote: | Originally posted by Aramis
Just out of curiosity, why do so many posters feel the need to define the boundaries and contents of the imaginary box that they keep their musical taste in?
When someone asks what kind of music I like, I tell them I like trance, eurodance and a smattering of prog. If they know what I'm talking about then I'll expand on it. If not, then further explanation would be a waste of breath. |
As I've just seen posted, some of you question the validity of defining 'borders'. This is why we have borders between countries on this planet. It prevents bloody border disputes and chaos. The goal of definition is to bring certainty and order. It is an essential basis for a civilization to define precise and understandable laws. In a just, and democratic civilization [ok, so maybe not all of you agree with democracy], everyone should have the right to a specific, simple, understandable, yet meaningful law or definition.
Remember the slavery problem? Well some say that the US Constitution legalizes slavery due to the 3/5 compromise and Section 9, Clause 1. This improperly defined 'border' caused the bloodiest war in US history in terms of the number of Americans that died. Just as countries and laws need 'borders' so does the classification of genres of music. |
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| Aramis |
| quote: | Originally posted by emperorhui
As I've just seen posted, some of you question the validity of defining 'borders'. This is why we have borders between countries on this planet. It prevents bloody border disputes and chaos. The goal of definition is to bring certainty and order. It is an essential basis for a civilization to define precise and understandable laws. In a just, and democratic civilization [ok, so maybe not all of you agree with democracy], everyone should have the right to a specific, simple, understandable, yet meaningful law or definition. |
Point taken, but I believe that there's more to it. It's not just 'civilisation', but is a result of each individual's fear of the unimaginable vastness of what they don't know. We all have our own imaginary models of the universe, and the more we know, the more aware we become of just how much we don't know, and the less inclined we become to take the 18th century classicist view that everything can be accurately classified - and in fact must be, or anarchy will ensue! Traditionally, The more ignorant people are, the more inclined they are to cling to the belief that their tiny little imaginary world is made up of the sum of the world's incontravertable facts - just look at religious (or musical) fundamentalists. Questioning those "facts" is also trying to steal the straw that they cling to in order to save themselves from what their irrational fear percieves as drowning in a sea of uncertainty. If the silly twats could just let go and stop struggling they would find that absolutely nothing happens:p
If someone wants to include crap-hop or even Hammond organ gospel greats under the auspices of EDM then that's fine with me. I have two broad categories - tracks I like and tracks I don't. Calling something EDM isn't going to change what my ears and brain percieve, nor does it threaten my grasp on reality.
To quote DJ Tiesto, "I was lost and I'm still lost, but I feel so much better. Just be." :toocool: |
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| JakeC |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Immortal Technique
Wyclef
All of these artists perform rap WITHOUT electronic sounds or synthesizers.
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no they do use synthesizers.
Immortal Technique - Dance With The Devil
Wyclef ft. The Rock - It Doesnt Matter
thats just two examples.
Rap is a genre of music aswell as a form of poetry. Hip Hop is also a style of music which is most of the time is joined together with rap. |
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| JakeC |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
I'd have to see some evidence vindicating its existence, wouldn't I? In the meantime I'm not going to speculate. Didn't everyone just get done stressing that EDM is anything that relies on electronically produced sounds? |
Faithless use a full band set up when they play live. |
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| emperorhui |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aramis
Point taken, but I believe that there's more to it. It's not just 'civilisation', but is a result of each individual's fear of the unimaginable vastness of what they don't know. We all have our own imaginary models of the universe, and the more we know, the more aware we become of just how much we don't know, and the less inclined we become to take the 18th century classicist view that everything can be accurately classified - and in fact must be, or anarchy will ensue! Traditionally, The more ignorant people are, the more inclined they are to cling to the belief that their tiny little imaginary world is made up of the sum of the world's incontravertable facts - just look at religious (or musical) fundamentalists. Questioning those "facts" is also trying to steal the straw that they cling to in order to save themselves from what their irrational fear percieves as drowning in a sea of uncertainty. If the silly twats could just let go and stop struggling they would find that absolutely nothing happens:p
If someone wants to include crap-hop or even Hammond organ gospel greats under the auspices of EDM then that's fine with me. I have two broad categories - tracks I like and tracks I don't. Calling something EDM isn't going to change what my ears and brain percieve, nor does it threaten my grasp on reality.
To quote DJ Tiesto, "I was lost and I'm still lost, but I feel so much better. Just be." :toocool: |
You are probably right in saying that not everything can be classified. But with such a large pool of subgenres of so many different sounds and vibes, I don't think there is reason to throw them all together and say they belong to the same category that has almost no bounds. While you see an imaginary world in me, I too see one in you as you have stated. You have your own way of classifying by tracks you like and those that you do not. But not everyone thinks the same way. To an uninformed person trying to learn about the genre, it means almost nothing. Who is going to determine which things are 'facts' if everyone has their own interpretations? Not only do we have to set a standard definition that everyone can agree to adhere to, but also we have to make it understandable so others can easily comprehend our music. We don't want to become a small number of people who know how to define EDM. We want others to be welcome to join us. Calling something EDM doesn't change what your ears perceive because you are educated and experienced with the genres. I've been spinning a lot of hard trance into my hip-hop/rap sets in the past five years. Frankly, calling hip-hop EDM makes it more difficult for me to explain to a curious listener what the already convoluted EDM is.
Yes. Doesn't debating this make you 'feel so much better'?;)
Another point I'd like to make to start up some new discussion is what hip-hop/rap listeners think about the genre. Last year, I made an attempt to spread 'the word' about trance and other EDM genres. [Simple things usually such as throwing a trance or techno song into a mix with rap/hip-hop] As I began to talk to people and make comparisons with popular songs and trance/techno songs, people seemed offended. For example, I tried to explain that in the song Usher- "Yeah", the background music used leads and electronic instruments. People simply shunned me for comparing 'techno' to R&B or rap. I'm interested to know why some of you are so inclined to include rap/hip-hop in EDM when fans of rap/hip-hop refuse to do so. |
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