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Edm Genres? (pg. 45)
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| auranaut |
| If we really want to argue about origins, then we could say everything came from acoustic music (electro coming from electro-funk, or whatever). But we have to draw the line somewhere, don't we? Hip-hop, and yes, I will call it that no matter how much you whine about it, is electro/breaks. The vocals obviously came from elsewhere, whether it be funk or reggae I don't care. But since vocals cannot be electronic (except if you pull a Kraftwerk), and the rest of the music is electronic, then what does that make hip-hop? EDM. |
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| auranaut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
They called this "hopping back and forth on the tables".....aka hip hop. Bambataa and Kool Herc were using this term 20 years before Naughty by Nature even existed.
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I've been saying that for the last... 10 pages. Just a pointer, so we don't have to bring that up again. |
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| LeiWM06 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Obviously you're the only one having cognitive difficulties here, because his reference to Rap using samples was merely supplementary information on top of the fact that Rap doesn't need electronic music to subsist--that it often uses non-electronic production--ergo, it isn't EDM. You're the only one that's dense here, and your unremitting persistance in trying to be right in *SOMETHING* is making you look increasingly idiotic.
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Actually there are certain trance songs that doesn't need electronic music to subsist either. And there are ones that can completely stand up with an organic background music too.
A perfect example is Dirty Vegas - Days Go By (Instrumental Remix). Sure "rap" music can have the back ground music replaced... by then so can trance... so the fact "that Rap doesn't need electronic music to subsist--that it often uses non-electronic production" doesn't make it different from trance or house. Rober Miles used piano samples, and ATB used guitar samples.
And obviously there are break songs that we like to call "hip-hop" with no lyrics... how do you classify those???
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ROFL...ANY MUSIC NOWADAYS CAN MANIPULATE ORGANIC SOUND WITH COMPUTERS, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING IT EDM OR NOT. Don't you realize how foolish you're sounding? |
Manipulation have nothing to do with production. EDM by definition is produced mainly using electronic means. And yes! Remixes of songs that's completely reproduced using electronic means becomes EDM. Take any remix. Aren't those EDM?
O Btw, Propellerhead Reason, one of the most popular Synth programs have included whole sections of hip-hop samples and loops... and hip-hop artists do use Reason to produce songs...
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So if I edit and adjust music and/or vocals in a rock song using the computer it becomes MIRACULOUSLY becomes EM or EDM? |
Well if you produce it and sequence it, YES! This is totally different from editing it.
Sarah McLachlan - World On Fire (Gabriel and Dresden Remix)
Tell me that Gabriel and Dresden's remix have nothing to do with the song being EDM or not.
Humm or would you rather call the original EDM?
:conf:
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Don't you realize that by your logic we have to completely redefine what "EM" and "EDM" are? I could say that because any organic song is digitally edited it's "EM" or "EDM". This is absolutely inane and you sure as well know it. |
If the song is digitally produced, not edited. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
This...is true. EDM as an official monicker for anything did not actually come around until about....5 years ago. I honestly had never heard anyone use it before then, though maybe it was or wasn't. It doesn't matter
So technically, you're right, but only in the sense that hip hop has an actual origin and "EDM" does not. If you want to separate yourself from the evil dark people, call your ing music trance. And we can all get on with living our lives. Quit insisting that your music is the only electronic music that matters. |
Just a few things, a) thank you for the capitulation. B)EDM as a term may be relatively new, however, the music it describes is not. You can clearly trace the roots of Trance, Techno, and House to the late seventies as an evolution of disco music utilizing synthetic instruments rather then organic sound. Most other forms of EDM branched from these three... maybe two as trance is likely an evolution of techno but my history in this regard is fuzzy. C) What you acknowledge in your last post is that origin is what determines if something fits into a genre.... hip-hop is derived from Rap which is derived from funk and possibly some regge influance. This differs from EDM and therefore they are not related despite possible similarities. Just as you have conceeded this I will conceed that your knowledge of music production is considerable and I thank you for your posts.
FYI, I have never (outside of this post) refered to what I listen to as EDM. I still view all the sub-genres as being either Trance, Techno, or House... I try not to carve it up too much soas not to pigeon-hole myself as a fan of one genre.... I can grove to drum and base, breaks, progressive house, etc. I don't care so long as the music is good enough to own me. Hell, I'll even grove to hip-hop if my wife forces me to go to a club she favours. |
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| auranaut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
... hip-hop is derived from Rap which is derived from funk and possibly some regge influance. This differs from EDM and therefore they are not related despite possible similarities. |
Prove it. Electro had to come from somewhere too.
http://www.littledetroit.net/Featur...atsItAllMea.php |
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| LeiWM06 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
hip-hop is derived from Rap which is derived from funk and possibly some regge influance. This differs from EDM and therefore they are not related despite possible similarities. |
Hip-Hop is not derived from Rap...
Present day "Rap" music is an infusion of hip-hop and rap styled lyrics.
Hip-Hop came from breaks... most hip-hop purists wouldn't even acknowledge songs played on the radio as real hip-hop.
Actually if you listen to Armand van Helden's album, you can see how different "rap" music and hip-hop is... |
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| Hydarnes |
| quote: | Actually there are certain trance songs that doesn't need electronic music to subsist either. And there are ones that can completely stand up with an organic background music too.
A perfect example is Dirty Vegas - Days Go By (Instrumental Remix). |
First, let's examine your bold allusion to Dirty Vegas' house song (it's not really trance) receiving an "instrumental" remix.
If you think that because the original format of this song was created as "Trance", that it miraculously remains trance even after an instance of the entire tune being altered to fit a completely different genre, I'm afraid you are gravely mislead.
Do you realize that any song can be remade into just about any genre you wish? Of course you do. Just because a rock song gets changed into a eurodance tune doesn't make them both "rock" songs because the original happened to be. ROFL... this is the lunacy you would have us believe! Let's take Joee's smash eurodance hit "Angel", for instance; this tune had two versions, the eurodance one and a rock kind. Using comparative logic, you would be telling us that the rock song is still Eurodance/EDM because it's the same song! How much more preposterous are your rationalizations going to become before you just concede?
| quote: | | Sure "rap" music can have the back ground music replaced... by then so can trance... so the fact "that Rap doesn't need electronic music to subsist--that it often uses non-electronic production" doesn't make it different from trance or house. Rober Miles used piano samples, and ATB used guitar samples. |
Do you really think that making such patently erroneous claims is going to afford even a scintilla of truth to your case? Dream on.
A trance song using instrumental samples along with the regular trance treatment has absolutely ZILCH to do with your argument. I've listened to Robert Miles' productions with piano samples, and anyone that has even given the song a cursory listen will notice right away that the entire song employs synthesizers and electronic sounds in addition to the samples. You have yet to provide us with a single Trance song that does not follow the standard synth pattern. So far you've failed miserably.
Rap can subsist COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANYTHING ELECTRONIC AT ALL. Rap is not EDM, Trance is. No amount of specious rhetoric is going to change that. The examples you provided still heavily rely on electronica, notwithstanding your baldfaced manipulation of the truth.
| quote: | | EDM by definition is produced mainly using electronic means. |
Exactly, we agree. And rap existed far before any synthesizers were invented. Only later did it employ them behind the rapping.
When will you recognize that using samples in addition to key characteristics that fit a genre and music that RELIES on certain sounds, are completely different things? Trance can sample instrumental music and rap can sample electronic music. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT ONE IS EDM AND THE OTHER IS NOT. Rap can exclusively use organic instruments, it isn't EDM. The roots for both musical styles are completely different.
A rock song can sample synthesizers, but that doesn't make it EDM. A Trance song can sample organic sounds, but that doesn't mean it isn't EDM.
How did you manage to butcher the facts so flawlessly and then try to convince yourself that you're actually right? You have some gall, I will give you credit for that. |
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| Hydarnes |
| quote: | Originally posted by LeiWM06
Hip-Hop is not derived from Rap...
Present day "Rap" music is an infusion of hip-hop and rap styled lyrics.
Hip-Hop came from breaks... most hip-hop purists wouldn't even acknowledge songs played on the radio as real hip-hop.
Actually if you listen to Armand van Helden's album, you can see how different "rap" music and hip-hop is... |
Rap and Hip-Hop are interchangeable terms. Do your homework before trying to feed us this garbage.
If you think that the "electronic music" that is sometimes used behind contemporary rapping is "hip-hop", you're dead wrong. Rap can use any form of accompaniment. |
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| UWM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Rap and Hip-Hop are interchangeable terms. Do your homework before trying to feed us this garbage. |
No.
They.
Aren't. |
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| Xenocreator_PG_ |
Electronic Duck.
I love that duck. It's amazing how a duck can be trained to hit it's beak on a keyboard. |
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| LeiWM06 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
First, let's examine your bold allusion to Dirty Vegas' house song (it's not really trance) receiving an "instrumental" remix.
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I fail to see that because my example is HOUSE, fails the "EDM" requirement because it is not trance....
Wait, you're gonna argue that house music isn't EDM either???
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If you think that because the original format of this song was created as "Trance", that it miraculously remains trance even after an instance of the entire tune being altered to fit a completely different genre, I'm afraid you are gravely mislead.
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Humm, so you're saying that music have their background replaced are no longer the same catagory that they're in anymore? Fine I'll grant you that. Now how about your original argument? Hip-hop songs with their background music replaced? So they might not be hip-hop anymore?
So, if it doesn't make them EDM more, how does that support your statement that hip-hop isn't EDM?
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Do you realize that any song can be remade into just about any genre you wish? Of course you do. Just because a rock song gets changed into a eurodance tune doesn't make them both "rock" songs because the original happened to be.
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That was my point! You misunderstood me. You
re the one that said:
So if I edit and adjust music and/or vocals in a rock song using the computer it becomes MIRACULOUSLY becomes EM or EDM?
So I guess you just answered your own question by saying:Do you realize that any song can be remade into just about any genre you wish? I guess it does MIRACULOUSLY becomes EM or EDM....
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Do you really think that making such patently erroneous claims is going to afford even a scintilla of truth to your case? Dream on.
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If I can get you to make contraditing arguments, then mission accomplished.
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A trance song using instrumental samples along with the regular trance treatment has absolutely ZILCH to do with your argument. I've listened to Robert Miles' productions with piano samples, and anyone that has even given the song a cursory listen will notice right away that the entire song employs synthesizers and electronic sounds in addition to the samples. You have yet to provide us with a single Trance song that does not follow the standard synth pattern. So far you've failed miserably. |
That was not the "single Trance song that does not follow the standard synth pattern". But rather a trance song that uses organic samples... which you claimed that hip-hop uses... which apparently strengthens your statement that hip-hop is not EDM...
And I fail to see the point why we should name exclusively TRANCE songs while talking about EDM...
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Rap can subsist COMPLETELY WITHOUT ANYTHING ELECTRONIC AT ALL. Rap is not EDM, Trance is. No amount of specious rhetoric is going to change that. The examples you provided still heavily rely on electronica, notwithstanding your baldfaced manipulation of the truth. |
You claimed that hip-hop is a cultre... sure it is... but it's also music... and the term hip-hop culture is different from hip-hop music.... hip hop music is an element of hip hop culture.
Since you like sources... then ok... read this page then:
http://www.jahsonic.com/Rap.html
here are just some statements from there:
| quote: | | The most important direct influence on the creation of hip hop music is the Jamaican style called dub, which arose in the 1960s. Dub musicians such as King Tubby isolated percussion breaks because dancers at clubs (sound systems) preferred the energetic rhythms of the often-short breaks. |
| quote: | | The four main elements of hip-hop are MCing, DJing, graffiti art, and breakdancing. The term has since come to be a synonym for rap music to mainstream audiences. The two are not, however, interchangeable - rapping (MCing) is the vocal expression of lyrics in sync to a rhythm beneath it. |
| quote: | | Rap music [origin: mid-1970s, New York City] is one of the elements of hip hop; it is a form of rhyming lyrics spoken rhythmically over musical instruments, with a musical backdrop of sampling, scratching and mixing by DJs. Originally rapping was called MCing and was seen as supporting the DJ. |
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| JakeC |
| quote: | | The four main elements of hip-hop are MCing, DJing, graffiti art, and breakdancing. The term has since come to be a synonym for rap music to mainstream audiences. The two are not, however, interchangeable - rapping (MCing) is the vocal expression of lyrics in sync to a rhythm beneath it. |
haha i said that in my own words 5 pages ago..... but they didnt listen!
Rap is and was originally the way the vocals were delivered, hip hop has and always will be the music. |
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