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Edm Genres? (pg. 7)
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| Hydarnes |
Then who is right, you or the music authorities? And btw, ambient is not just a genre within Trance, it is a separate genre altogether. Ambient trance is the combination of the two. Just because a song doesn't fit hardcore into strictly the ambient style doesn't exclude it from being "ambient", do you not understand this?
Also, would you consider Chicane - Saltwater (feat. Moya Brennan) somewhat of an ambient Trance track? |
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| fuct4less |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Then please enlighten me. Many times it's hard to tell the difference between the two.
For example. Tiesto's "Just Be" both qualifies as "euphoric" AND "ambient". So do many of Kirsty's songs. |
Just Be is neither euphoric (as a state of euphoria is far more of a feeling an individual receives than a defined genre of music, and practically any individual can find practically any style of music to be euphoric) nor ambient. Moreover, it arguably isn't a trance song.
And for 's sake, EDM is simply defined as any music produced electronically. And as hip-hop is primarily produced via electronic means, it is indeed classifiable as EDM. |
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| Snooper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
And btw, ambient is not just a genre within Trance, it is a separate genre altogether. |
Hell, this is what I've been trying to tell you all along. This thread is about genres within edm, not trance subgenres. Just because a trance tune is chilled doesn't make it ambient. "Saltwater" may be classified within the "ambient-trance" subgenre, but it's not an ambient song. Go out there and explore some more, and you'll find out what real ambient is. Not all edm has something to do with trance. |
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| muckluck |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Then who is right, you or the music authorities? |
The only person close to a music authority in this thread said anything made with synthesizers/drum machines is EDM. Anything on the internet that has "Encyclopedia of" in front of it does not = authority. Some random idiot named trancebrat on random forums does not = authority. EDM means Electronic Dance Music buddy. Aka music made with electronic instrumens which you dance to. Hip hop is made with electronic instruments and you dance to it. Get it through your thick head. I've told you why rap is EDM, but you've never said why it isn't EDM. Just that it isn't because a few morons with internet connections omit it from their erroneous "Encylcopedia". And i'll ask again what has already, do you even know what percussion is? Hip Hop and rap are breakbeat, and breakbeat is EDM.
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Also, would you consider Chicane - Saltwater (feat. Moya Brennan) somewhat of an ambient Trance track? |
No. |
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| DRM |
christ! hydarnes give up mate. u dont have a clue, so if i were u id stop making a twat of urself and not reply any more to things u know nothing of.
for a rough guide, i dont suggest using ishkurs guide at all. its a fine guide for people who know their as they can differentiate between the spouting and wots actually true in there.
instead i direct any1 who wants to understand the basic difference between the main genres without going too deep into all the many sub genres :
Here
click on the genre u want then listen to the short clips for some of the tunes and u should be able to pick up the similarities in each genre pretty quickly |
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| Hydarnes |
f4lesss,
| quote: | Originally posted by fuct4less
Just Be is neither euphoric (as a state of euphoria is far more of a feeling an individual receives than a defined genre of music, and practically any individual can find practically any style of music to be euphoric) nor ambient. Moreover, it arguably isn't a trance song.
And for 's sake, EDM is simply defined as any music produced electronically. And as hip-hop is primarily produced via electronic means, it is indeed classifiable as EDM. |
Not only is "Just Be" a bonafide vocal trance song, but all authorities classify it as "euphoric trance". We find the same classification with Delerium's "Silence" feat. Sarah McLachlan, although I can't figure out what's so euphoric about the song.
I perfectly understand the independent notion that what is "euphoric" varies with great subjectivity to the individual, but I'm also telling you that certain trance songs are classified within the "euphoric" subjgenre. They probably shouldn't make that classification, but they do.
As for rap and hip-hop, again, just because they are have elements of electronic music does not automatically make them qualify (according to musical authorities) as "EDM". Show me ONE source that classifies euro-dance,trance, house with "rap" and "hip-hop" as being in the same musical category. I just provided you with a source that defines EDM as music that is largely produced by electronic sounds, and although you might think that rap and hip-hop can make some claims on that doesn't make them ACCEPTED EDM styles. This occurs in the VERY SAME WAY that new age isn't included as EDM simply because some of it heavily employs synthesizers. Can't you understand this? Rap and hip-hop might be played in dance clubs, but they give off an entirely different vibe than EDM or eurodance music, that's why they OVERWHELMINGLY are NOT classified with the other "dance" music. The constant rapping alters the whole nature of the music, even if some background synths are somewhat discernibly present.
Snoopy,
| quote: | | Hell, this is what I've been trying to tell you all along. This thread is about genres within edm, not trance subgenres. Just because a trance tune is chilled doesn't make it ambient. "Saltwater" may be classified within the "ambient-trance" subgenre, but it's not an ambient song. Go out there and explore some more, and you'll find out what real ambient is. Not all edm has something to do with trance. |
Wow, you're logic is getting more and more hard to follow with every subsequent post, but if I'm reading the above correctly, we are in PERFECT HARMONY. I completely agree with you that saltwater cannot be classified as an "ambient" song, but under trance it can be called "ambient-trance". Same would apply to the other example songs I mentioned.
In fact, there's a high possibility that misunderstanding is playing more of a factor in our disagreement than actual discord. And I also perfectly understand that EDM isn't necessarily trance, however, it is obvious to notice that all of the EDM genres have a certain identifiable sound. Euro-dance and Trance, for example, have strong similarities, and that is the reason I eventually moved on to preferring the latter over the former. Rap has no sound resemblance other than a minor allusion to something being electronically produced in the background.
Semantics can always play a part in a debate like this, and although you may think that hip-hop and rap technically qualify to be called "Electronic Music", they are just not going to be accepted in the same category by many people, and I think that's part of the reason why they usually are excluded as separate entities in music. I guess if we want to generalize it to "EM", however, I really can't argue with the fact that it can be loosely classified. |
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| Snooper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
Wow, you're logic is getting more and more hard to follow with every subsequent post, but if I'm reading the above correctly, we are in PERFECT HARMONY. I completely agree with you that saltwater cannot be classified as an "ambient" song, but under trance it can be called "ambient-trance". Same would apply to the other example songs I mentioned. |
The point is, that while this thread is about EDM genres you keep on talking about subgenres within trance. And when you say that tunes like "Just Be" or Kirsty Hawkshaw tunes are ambient you show that you have no clue. A tune isn't "ambient" just because it has vocals.
About "Saltwater" I'd say that's more of a chilled trance tune than "ambient trance", as is probably the case with most trance that you label "ambient". For some real ambient tunes boardering to trance, check out:
Biosphere - The Fairy Tale (Remix)
H.U.V.A. Network - Overload (Putput Mix) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Hip-hop is electronic dance music. It originates from a DJ trick that worked well on the dancefloor, and it's almost entirely electronically made. Break-beats are a hallmark of dance music, as they were created to make people dance. The "vibe" of the music is utterly irrelevant, as acid techno has a completely different vibe to epic trance and gabba has a completely different vibe to trip-hop. Yet all of the above are EDM. As is hip-hop. Not to mention many other genres and respected EDM artists employing rap vocals- for instance The KLF, Faithless and The Chemical Brothers. |
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| Hydarnes |
snooper,
| quote: | | The point is, that while this thread is about EDM genres you keep on talking about subgenres within trance. And when you say that tunes like "Just Be" or Kirsty Hawkshaw tunes are ambient you show that you have no clue. A tune isn't "ambient" just because it has vocals. |
But wait a minute. I was just making a passing comment about how many subgenres each style has, so what's wrong with that? Furthermore, I never categorized any of the tunes that I mentioned as strictly "ambient", but rather ALWAYS in the context of "ambient trance". And I am quite familiar that a track is not ambient simply because it has vocals--it has to be a certain kind.
| quote: | | About "Saltwater" I'd say that's more of a chilled trance tune than "ambient trance", as is probably the case with most trance that you label "ambient". For some real ambient tunes boardering to trance, check out: |
Well, that's your opinion. Too me the song is too dance-floor driven to be "chilled". But the vocals and structure of the song definitely give it an ambient-trance flavor .
I will check out your recommendations!
G'day.
System-J,
I already presented my case and I would like some outside/independent evidence to support your opinion. Just because you think they are all in the same isn't going to change that they aren't according to official musical categories. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Hydarnes
System-J,
I already presented my case and I would like some outside/independent evidence to support your opinion. Just because you think they are all in the same isn't going to change that they aren't according to official musical categories. |
Do you define "official" as people who agree with you? I wasn't aware there was an international syndicate that categorises all music, perhaps you could provide me with a link to their homepage?
Your entire argument against hip-hop being electronic dance music is the fact that it has a different "vibe". The overwhelming evidence against you concerns that the music is regularly played in clubs, was designed to be danced to (read a biog of Grandmaster Flash or Afrika Bambaataa if you want to see how hip-hop was formed and for what purpose), and is produced on electronic instruments and drum machines. Hell, if the vibe of the genre concerns you so much, listen to some DJ Shadow, and then tell me the vibe of hip-hop is never the same as other EDM. |
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| Zombie0915 |
I wonder if arguing about hip-hop and ambient helps the thread starter figure out the genres any better, sheesh.
Poor kids who dont have a clue yet must get hella intimidated when these threads that are supposed to help them figure stuff out sprout off into these nasty debates.
Well, it is better than the last couple weeks I guess, at least we still have a couple pages full of informative music discussion, its actually been pretty nice lately.
I'm thinking that chicane and stuff is nice and chill, but not quite ambient, when I think of ambient music I think of sitting on a couch relaxing with stuff playing in the background, chicane may be chill but it is still more dancing music than sitting music(IMHO)
I can understand kids wanting to keep hip hop un-attached from EDM, but your in denial if you really beleive that hip hop has no influence in the stuff we are hearing right now.
According to some sources, EDM is hip-hop, not the other way around. If you can't accept this, then have a look at this:
http://www.ishkur.com/articles/
then click on "Z-trip speaks out"
I didn't want to link it directly because ishkur gets pissed when kids take his audio links.
Anyway, Z trip is a big dj that lotsa ppl worship, if that isnt an authoritative source than I don't know what is. |
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| JakeC |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0915
According to some sources, EDM is hip-hop, not the other way around. If you can't accept this, then have a look at this:
http://www.ishkur.com/articles/
then click on "Z-trip speaks out"
I didn't want to link it directly because ishkur gets pissed when kids take his audio links.
Anyway, Z trip is a big dj that lotsa ppl worship, if that isnt an authoritative source than I don't know what is. |
the way i interpreted that speech was:
he was talking about DJ's and not musical pigeon holes and basically saying who gives a what you play.
*what was that track at the start? its ing class* |
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