Originally posted by occrider
I dunno if relationships factor in to discussions these days.
really? you don't think so?
i thought extensive banking relationships would be extremely important because the bank has the ability to see what amounts to your cash flow over a long period. that's the type of information they want prior to extending credit. i could be off, i was just speculating about its importance.
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by Capitalizt
The amount of money being printed is completely insane.
Also note what Robert Kiyosaki has to say
Shakka
Don't pay any attention to Kyosaki...
In other news, hold on to your hats. We're limit down on futures this morning. I don't know if I've ever seen this. Might be a short day.
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Don't pay any attention to Kyosaki...
In other news, hold on to your hats. We're limit down on futures this morning. I don't know if I've ever seen this. Might be a short day.
Yes, ignoring the facts is a terrific investment strategy. I think it's probably almost as good as hope itself. :rolleyes:
Shakka
What facts? I didn't even watch the video. That guy was a shill for real-estate through the bubble and got so much credit for Rich Dad Poor Dad. He and Donald Trump are butt-buddies. Other than that there's nothing special about him that I'm aware of. What in particular fascinated you?
Trancer-X
quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
What facts? I didn't even watch the video. That guy was a shill for real-estate through the bubble and got so much credit for Rich Dad Poor Dad. He and Donald Trump are butt-buddies. Other than that there's nothing special about him that I'm aware of. What in particular fascinated you?
It's a little over a minute long. I'm sure you can manage to get through it. ;)
Reason isn't blinded by popular prejudice and facts are facts no matter WHO says them.
Trancer-X
Stocks head for sharp decline on recession fears
Friday October 24, 8:42 am ET
By Stevenson Jacobs, AP Business Writer
Wall Street heads for big decline as recession fears stir panic, batter world markets
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street headed for another precipitous drop Friday as fears of a punishing global recession stirred panic among investors and sent world financial markets into a tailspin. The Dow Jones industrial average futures fell 550 points, triggering a halt in selling of stock future contracts.
The massive decline was caused by increasingly grim news from overseas. In Japan, shares of Sony sank more than 14 percent after it slashed its earnings forecast for the fiscal year. In Germany, Daimler's stock dropped 11.4 percent in morning trading after it reported lower third-quarter earnings and abandoned its 2008 profit and revenue guidance.
Japan's Nikkei stock average fell a staggering 9.60 percent. In Europe, Germany's benchmark DAX index was down 10.76 percent, France's CAC40 dropped 10 percent while Britain's FTSE 100 sank 8.67 percent after the government said its gross domestic product fell 0.5 percent in the third quarter, putting the country on the brink of recession.
The dour outlook convinced investors that the world economy is headed for a long and severe downturn despite a raft of government rescue efforts aimed at pulling the financial system from the brink. It also indicated that the tremors caused by the global credit crisis may have only begun to be felt in their true scope and magnitude.
"There's a lot of panic out there today," said Scott Fullman, director of derivatives investment strategy for WJB Capital Group in New York. "People have been saying that we're in a recession. This is the realization."
Fearing more carnage in world equity markets, big hedge funds and other institutional investors have been pulling out their money en masse in a bid to reduce risk and raise cash -- a process known as deleveraging that only intensifies the selling. Meanwhile, individual investors that have seen their holdings decimated in recent weeks have been yanking money out of mutual funds, adding to the downward pressure on markets.
"I think it would be natural to make an assumption that there are some funds in trouble and that we may see some funds shut down," Fullman said.
Ahead of the market's open, Dow Jones industrial average futures fell the maximum allowed limit of 550, or 6.27 percent, to 8,224. That triggered "circuit breakers" that automatically freeze selling until the market's 9:30 a.m. EDT open. However, traders can still buy stocks and send the market higher.
The Standard & Poor's 500 index futures index was also down the maximum allowed 60 points, or 6.56 percent, to 855.20, and the Nasdaq 100 index futures was down the maximum allowed 85.00, or 6.20 percent, at 1,175.75.
The big drop in futures trading raised the possibility that circuit breakers intended to prevent panic selling could be triggered during regular trading -- something that hasn't happened since 1997.
The thresholds that would trigger a halt in trading are set at a decline of 10 percent, 20 percent and 30 percent in the Dow, based on where that index was at the beginning of the current quarter; that would mean declines of 1,100 points, 2,200 points and 3,300 points, respectively.
If the Dow Jones industrial average falls 1,100 points before 2 p.m., the market will shut down for an hour. If the threshold is breached between 2 p.m. and 2:30 p.m., the halt will last 30 minutes. Trading would stop again if the Dow falls by 2,200 points. If the Dow falls by 3,300 points at any time, trading would be halted for the day.
Gary Townsend, president and CEO of, Hill-Townsend Capital Inc., said a halt in trading was a possibility.
"It's a way of smoothing market activity and making it orderly. No one would like to see it," he said.
Elsewhere in Asia on Friday, Hong Kong's Hang Seng index fell 8.3 percent to 12,618. Markets in India, Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines were also down sharply as investors bailed from emerging markets to cut their exposure to risky assets and meet redemption needs at home.
The intensifiying gloom over growth expectations is having the added impact of putting small economies and currencies under extreme pressure. Investors are pulling money out of countries in Eastern Europe, Latin America and Asia on fears vulnerable countries will not only be hit hard by the financial crisis but may also default on debt.
In Europe, for example, Hungary, Ukraine and Belarus are all, like Iceland, in talks with the IMF to discuss possible loans.
Meanwhile, demand for U.S. Treasurys jumped as investors sought safe places to put their money. The three-month bill, regarded as the safest assets around, yielded 0.72 percent, down from 0.94 percent late Thursday.
The U.S. dollar, meanwhile, plunged below 93 yen, a 13-year low, as traders reacted to dismal U.S. jobs data that spurred speculation the Federal Reserve might cut interest rates. Meanwhile, gold prices plunged.
Light, sweet crude was down $4.64 to $63.20 premarket electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The sell-off, another sign that investors fear a severe recession, came despite OPEC's announcement that it will cut production by 1.5 million barrels a day in a bid to shore up sagging prices.
Associated Press writers Carlos Piovano in London, Alex Kennedy in Singapore, Shino Yuasa in Tokyo and Kelly Olsen in Seoul and Sarah Lepro and Stephen Bernard in New York contributed to this report.
Black Friday?: Complex and Amazingly Strong Forces at Work
Posted Oct 24, 2008 09:52am EDT by Aaron Task in Investing, Commodities, Recession
Related: ^dji, ^gspc, ^ixic, SNE, EWJ, SPY, DIA
Friday is shaping up to be a historic day, as major markets plummeted across the world and U.S. futures were halted after hitting "limit down" levels.
"The forces at work this morning are complex and amazingly strong," writes Art Cashin, head of floor operations at UBS. "It could be a selloff on the order of 1000 to 2000 points on the Dow [but] a sudden reversal is always possible."
Cashin, among others, has been warning about the possibility of a retest of the market's October 2002 lows of Dow 7300 and S&P 768. The recent lows of Dow 7774 and S&P 840 are the first levels of "support" traders are watching.
Among the high-, umm, low-lights of what is shaping up to be a very Black Friday:
Japan's Nikkei tumbled 9.6% to its lowest level since Spring 2003 following Sony's warning and amid general fears of a global recession. Major markets in Hong Kong and South Korea also plunged.
European markets plummeted after the U.K. said economic activity contracted by 0.5% in the third quarter and Daimler essentially withdrew is guidance for the coming year. The British pound suffered its worst decline since 1971.
Russia's Micex tumbled 14% a day after S&P cut the country's credit outlook to negative from stable. Regulators suspended trading and don't plan to reopen until Tuesday.
Credit market indicators such as Libor, which had been improving in recent days, reversed course and rose again as banks remain very wary to lend, even (or especially) to other banks.
Commodities plunged: Oil slid below $63 per barrel as OPEC's production cut failed to allay concerns about demand destruction. Gold fell sharply as the dollar rallied vs. European currencies, although the greenback was weak vs. the yen.
The strength in the yen reflects an unwinding of so-called carry trades; bets made by speculators using borrowed yen. The carry trade was used to finance bets on assets worldwide of varying types along the risk curve. Now, those bets are being unwound as capital seeks a refuge, which is why the yen and Treasuries are about the only assets rising right now.
As trading gets underway, some players are noting the levels that trigger the NYSE's circuit breakers, which halt or suspend trading depending on the time of day and magnitude of the decline. Details
Originally posted by Shakka
What facts? I didn't even watch the video. That guy was a shill for real-estate through the bubble and got so much credit for Rich Dad Poor Dad. He and Donald Trump are butt-buddies. Other than that there's nothing special about him that I'm aware of. What in particular fascinated you?
I attended a "free seminar" about learning how to do real estate using Kiyosaki's methods. Turned out, you had to pay $900 to take a course, and the seminar was just a pitch to convince people to pay the $900. I wonder what those people who paid $900 are thinking now? :stongue:
Shakka
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I wonder what those people who paid $900 are thinking now? :stongue:
"I wish I had my $900 back!"
mndeg
anyone want to discuss aig being a money pit?
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by mndeg
anyone want to discuss aig being a money pit?
AIG's executive management should be immediately fired. All of them. Useless pigs...
