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flamebait resume advice (pg. 70)
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| igottaknow |
I bet the dog whisperer would have better luck with Ashley than a psychiatrist.
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
It was the law. Clerks had the discretion to doubt age and ask for ID to be produced. After my case they put in the books that the apperance must look atleast 25 or ID must be produced. Prior it was only 19. If you do not beleive me look up the laws in 2003 and 2005 and see how they differ.
Untrue at the time. So you are the one lying. There was no legal requirement for ID to be produced unless the clerk doubted you to be of age. At one point kids could bring notes from their parents to buy cigarettes.
While this is partially true in regard to a request, at the time, and I do mean 2003, this was not the case. So while you think this may be it based upon your experiences, the laws have changed over time, and at the time this wasn't the case. So it is nonsense you are talking in regard to the time in which it happened, and the laws involved at the time. She was obligated to sell due to right of sale which states merchants cannot discriminate sale of goods being advertised in store and having a price preestablished, unless the law provides for refusal of sale. In this case sale was restricted by belief of legal purchase age. While after the case the law would have made it a requirement since i did not look 25 years of age, which it was changed to. At the time of the incident it was only that i appear to be 19 or older for me to be required to produce ID, unless the clerk had reason to believe I was a minor, which as stated, she did not, she believed me to be of legal age. I had bought cigarettes from her before on another occasion.
I didn't insinuate theft. I actually stated at the time my intent to pay for them.
As stated I didn't enter he space she came up to me.
The incident actually happened just after new years in 2004 like on the 6th or something. |
Once again, I worked for variety stores from 2001 - 2006 selling cigarettes. I know/knew the laws and I know with absolute certainty that if you are asked for ID, you must provide it or be denied sale, pre OR post 2003.
When you say "I'll get them myself" that is an insinuation that you are going to steal them.
Was it at Forwells on Lancaster or not? |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
She stated she believed me to be of age twice, and also did so in court. |
Then why, Mr. Ashley, would she have deprived you of your nicotine, propelling this untoward chain of events? You're ignoring a salient feature of the law, then, which was that even if we had just cause to believe a person over the age of allowance, without proof, clerks should err on the side of caution.
Also, if she had, in fact, been perjuring herself, it would make more sense to withhold such a belief, but I digress. |
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| w_ashley |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Having worked in retail, Mr. Ashley, I will tell you that as far back as 1989, they TRAINED us to card people |
Who the cares. I'm not in ing america.
| quote: | | , with or without facial hair, explaining that there were kids, as young as 13 who had full beards. It was, then, illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone younger than 18 and alcohol to anyone under 21. The law AND corporate HQ always took our side. You are wrong about your right to purchase and, if you'll look up the word, discretion, you'll find that the word goes both ways; not, simply, to a decision which favors you. |
My age was not in doubt.
Both me and the clerk believed me to be my actual age 23.
| quote: |
Legally, you have no right to purchase without consent of the seller. |
Legally you are lying if the good is advertised and priced the object must be sold for the price if it is being offered for general sale.
It was the seller cannot discriminate except as is allowed by law.
Eg. If I go into a store and pick up something and go to the clerk THEY HAVE TO SELL IT, they can't deny it to me then sell it to somone else, that is sales discrimination, it is illegal.
| quote: |
A common tactic was to leave money and leave with the beer in order to avoid being carded. If the clerk doesn't ring it up, however, that's nothing more or less than simple theft. |
Not the same situation. I was of age, and she believed me to be of age. There was nothign illegal occuring. Nor was there a breach of law until she refused to sell to me, at that point is was breach of commercial sales laws - read up on "right of sale" |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
She stated she believed me to be of age twice, and also did so in court. |
This is entirely irrelevant!
Let me restate this... if you are asked for ID, you must provide it. If you don't, they can deny the sale. END OF ING STORY!
Even if she thought you were a million and one, if she asked you for ID, you are obligated to provide it. EVEN IF YOU PROVIDE ID, THEY CAN STILL
STILL
STILL
DENY YOU!! |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
After my case they put in the books that the apperance must look atleast 25 or ID must be produced. Prior it was only 19. If you do not beleive me look up the laws in 2003 and 2005 and see how they differ. |
He actually believes congress introduced legislation changed the law as a direct result of his arrest. :stongue: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Someone explain the difference between "believe" and "know" to this lunatic. |
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| w_ashley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
This is entirely irrelevant!
Let me restate this... if you are asked for ID, you must provide it. |
You are wrong. At the time there was no requirement to produce ID unless legal grounds are existant. THE SPECIFIC grounds are doubt of legal age, which was not in place. YOU ARE WRONG.
This has since changed in the legal revision to belief of age being atleast 25 rather than legal age. It may have changed since last I looked it up. BUT THE MAIN POINT IS.. by law at the time there was no requirement without doubt of age. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
Who the cares. I'm not in ing america.
My age was not in doubt.
Both me and the clerk believed me to be my actual age 23.
[quote[
Legally, you have no right to purchase without consent of the seller.[\quote]
Legally you are lying if the good is advertised and price the object must be sold for the price if it is being offered for general sale.
It was the seller cannot discriminate except as is allowed by law.
Eg. If I go into a store and pick up something and go to the clerk THEY HAVE TO SELL IT, they can't deny it to me then sell it to somone else, that is sales discrimination, it is illegal.
Not the same situation. I was of age, and she believed me to be of age. There was nothign illegal occuring. Nor was there a breach of law until she refused to sell to me, at that point is was breach of commercial sales laws - read up on "right of sale" |
Sure, you're not in America, Mr. Ashley, but our systems are, while sometimes roughly, analogous. I know enough about Canada to know that and to know that you're inventing interpretation of the laws in order to suit your purposes. Besides, it's not as though a search through Google wouldn't clear a lot of these issues up. So, cite the letter of the law you believe applies or quiet your urge to conjecture when otherwise speaking out of turn.
You still haven't answered my erstwhile questions, Mr. Ashley, but, it would seem, that at least part of the truth which balances out your rather one-sided accounts is coming out. I await your answers. |
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| Theresa |
A store has the right to deny you sale of anything they ing like.
On "devil's night" we were specifically told to deny the sale of eggs to young kids. We were told not to sell papers, lighters or matches to anyone who was not of legal smoking age. In fact, if I feel like not selling you a ing chocolate bar, I can tell you go lick a tree and no chocolate bar for you.
I am 100% convinced now that this happened in the Forwells on Lancaster St. and I personally know both Tracey, Mary and Ed (the owner) since I worked at that store in 2001!! With this being said, I know without a doubt in my mind that if you leaned over the counter, you were in her space, and that they were 100% within their rights to deny you sale AND call the police. I also know that both Tracey and Mary are reasonable people, (and conflict avoiders), who wouldn't start or cause for the sake of it. You obviously made Mary feel threatened and you didn't provide your ID. Furthermore, when the police showed up, you resisted him which provoked his reaction. |
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| idoru |
| Nobody "has" to sell you anything just because you pick it up. Businesses have every right to deny you the opportunity of purchasing from them. |
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| Silky Johnson |
Rofl, there are huge signs at every cash register and above the tobacco shelves that explicitly state IF YOU LOOK YOUNGER THAN 19, YOU MUST PROVIDE PHOTO ID TO BUY TOBACCO AND TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
Lmao, what a ing moron. |
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