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New York Yankees Thread (THIS THING OF OURS) (pg. 5)
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by djstopngo
you guys need to all calm down. Now, for the first time in a long time, I have actually been impressed with the Yankees this winter. For once, Cashman isn't throwing away money at has beens or never was. The mets were also smart to not counter the Giants offer on Zito. Barry's the 8th best pitcher in the big league's (maybe) and certainly isn't deserving of the kind of money he got. He only got that money cause he happened to be the only decent arm available (after dice k).
Now, as for the BoSox. I doubt we'll win the East (we never do for one reason or another, call it fate i guess). But on paper, I believe, there is no better team. Top to bottom. Pitching staff. You name it. We have two weaknesses. Middle relief and a closer. If we sort those two out and our starters pitch the way they should then it's basically over. No team in the AL can go 6 starters deep the way the Sox can and the teams that can produce similar offensive numbers (yanks, rangers) don't have the pitching. Yes, the white sox can pitch but their lineup is not comparable to that of the Red Sox, Yankees or even the Jays. |
although im a yankees fan i agree with you to a certain extent,,cashman hasnt had to throw money away because i think we have great young players that surprised a few people last season.. melke was unbelievable,,cano exceeded expectations by surpassing his performances from the previous year..we now have great young players...
now for the sox...manny is a disruptive influence and you should of offloaded his bitchy little ass in 05..
you kept wakefield and offloaded mirabelli witch is insane..
nixon and capler were also released who were solid players and firm sox favourites.. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
now for the sox...manny is a disruptive influence and you should of offloaded his bitchy little ass in 05..
you kept wakefield and offloaded mirabelli witch is insane..
nixon and capler were also released who were solid players and firm sox favourites.. |
manny may be disruptive, but he's still either the best or second best hitter in baseball. I would say it's a toss up between Vlad and Manny. Without manny, Ortiz wouldn't see a strike. Without Ortiz hitting the ball, and no manny, the sox have no offense. It's that simple.
I agree with every other thing you say about the sox.
EDIT: Ok, i forgot pujols, but i think he's a mad juicehead. I mean who the hell pulls their oblique and is out for 3 weeks for raising his hand. |
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
manny may be disruptive, but he's still either the best or second best hitter in baseball. I would say it's a toss up between Vlad and Manny. Without manny, Ortiz wouldn't see a strike. Without Ortiz hitting the ball, and no manny, the sox have no offense. It's that simple.
I agree with every other thing you say about the sox.
EDIT: Ok, i forgot pujols, but i think he's a mad juicehead. I mean who the hell pulls their oblique and is out for 3 weeks for raising his hand. |
manny didnt bother his ass to come out for the last ten games of the season,,,,ortiz did fine without him...
manny couldnt even bother his ass to turn up for the allstar game..
mate,when the yankees came back after the sox being so far in front,,mannys bat dropped... |
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| vtec junkie |
| Baseball is to sports as Oakenfold is to dance music. Yeah tons of people support and go to watch but it's still BORING AS . A pitch move here, a pitch move there.....the Dj/batter lost sight of the ball/bassline.....oh somebody just struck out.....what a trainwreck.....everybody is booing. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO....... |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by steven-neil
manny didnt bother his ass to come out for the last ten games of the season,,,,ortiz did fine without him...
manny couldnt even bother his ass to turn up for the allstar game..
mate,when the yankees came back after the sox being so far in front,,mannys bat dropped... |
your assessment of his attitude is 100% correct, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the whinning bitch can put up some crazy numbers. 9 of 13 years batting over .300, 9 straight years with >30 hrs (11-12 seasons with more than 30 hrs),and 9 straight seasons with 100+ RBIS (11-12 seasons with 100+ RBIs). To top it off he is a career .314 batter (Jeter is a career .317 batter) and will hit HR number 500 toward the end of this year. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by vtec junkie
Baseball is to sports as Oakenfold is to dance music. Yeah tons of people support and go to watch but it's still BORING AS . A pitch move here, a pitch move there.....the Dj/batter lost sight of the ball/bassline.....oh somebody just struck out.....what a trainwreck.....everybody is booing. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO....... |
Nice SAT flashback. i guess the major difference is that people don't need to be rolling their asses off to enjoy baseball. |
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| vtec junkie |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i guess the major difference is that people don't need to be rolling their asses off to enjoy baseball. |
No they just need to drink lots and lots of beer.......:haha: |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by vtec junkie
No they just need to drink lots and lots of beer.......:haha: |
i knew that was coming i just didn't have enough time to edit.
Baseball is a game of wit, pitch him here, slide step, pitch out, etc... More than anything, its about catching the other person off guard. If you can't appreciate nuances i wouldn't expect you to like the game. |
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| djstopngo |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
you're wrong on several levels here. Lets start with your pitching staff. Your rotation isn't that great, Matz is good but not proven in the bigs, Schil is 40, Beckett had a phenomenally high era, wakefield sux, and papelbon is coming off of elbow problems. I wouldn't ride the 'red sox have a great rotation' wave if i was you. Your middle relieve is also suspect. JC Romero and Joel Piniero aren't saviors. Timlin is the best guy in the bullpen (unless papelbon goes back). To top it off, who the hell is your closer??? Hansen?? he's been getting smoked.
Your lineup, give me a break, I wouldn't even put the Sox lineup in the top 5. The additions to your team were marginally better than what you had. Drew is a walking sling and has had 2 good years in an 8 year career; he's average at best. Julio Lugo puts up numbers in an age of the jacked short stop. I will give it to you that Hinske was a good pick up, but that doesn't make up for the fact that CoCo is a huge disappointment, Varitek is aging early, and Youkilis had the stamina of a 12 yr old boy. Without Manny, you're lineup is reduced to basically nothing, noone would pitch to ortiz and everyone else is average at best.
The yankees on the otherhand are stacked on offense. Damon, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Matsui, Abreu, Giambi, Posada, etc.... Come on dude, they may not gel all the time, but they are hands down much better than anything the sox can throw out.
The yanks may not have the best rotation, but we certainly have some talented youth in the waits. It looks like Cashman is setting up for some trade bait. So any talks of the yankees staff sucking will end with a huge trade with those young hot prospect pitchers. Mark that one down. BTW, the yanks have the number 1 pitching prospect in baseball in phillip hughes. You'll surely see him in action by the end of the summer.
Oh and let us not forget that we still have the best closer in the game. |
I love a good baseball debate. First, let me say that I think there's a sizable learning curve in Beckett and I would be surprised if his second season in the AL resembled his first. As for Schilling, he is getting older, but he's also not the ace and he doesn't need to be. Wakefield doesn't suck, especially for a 5th starter. Papelbon is the best arm to come up in the organization since Clemens - the doctors say his elbow's fine but, I agree, we'll have to wait and see. Matz is a toss up.
Not a top 5 offense? That's simply ridiculous. Drew's a question mark, to be sure, if he's healthy he'll hit around or above .300 and if doesn't we'll soon find out how good Pena is. I think, if given a lot of at bats, Pena can be very good and a suitable replacement. You're right about Coco, offensively he was a bust. Will he rebound? I doubt it. You're wrong about Lugo, he hit around .280 for a team. Put him at the bottom of the order in a good lineup and he'll see a lot of strikes and his numbers will go up. Cut Youk some slack, there's no player Beane wanted more than the greek god and a drop off is exceedingly normal for a player seeing his first ever regular action. He'll be better than fine, he gets on base, can hit the other way and has enough power to hit home runs at Fenway. Varitek is aging, yes. Is there someone any manager would rather have at that position. No. For the hitting, the catching and ability to work with a pitching staff, tek's the best. Fact. Don't forget Lowell, Manny and Ortiz. With the exception of Pena, this lineup has the highest obp in the league and two of the league's best sluggers. That spells success for an offense.
Yes, the yankees have a great offense, probably the best top to bottom. That being said, you guys are wasting A-Rod at third. He's too damn good at short. It sucks that Jeter's such an icon because anybody else with his fielding percentage would've been moved to third by now. Especially considering A-Rod's lackluster performance there this past year.
As for pitching, get serious. Your prospects are nice, Hughes has serious potential. But Pettitte and Pavano are terrible and Mussina's numbers have been on the decline. Good idea to get rid of Johnson but who've you replaced him with? I like Wang but he's not an ace. Rivera is great, nobody would say differently. But in August, who's getting the first 24 outs? Your staff is weak, I think. |
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| vtec junkie |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
i knew that was coming i just didn't have enough time to edit.
Baseball is a game of wit, pitch him here, slide step, pitch out, etc... More than anything, its about catching the other person off guard. If you can't appreciate nuances i wouldn't expect you to like the game. |
I love playing baseball I just can't stand watching it. If baseball teams had salary caps I think it would make the game more interesting to watch....but for the most part.....when it comes to watching sports.....I'm all about contact! |
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| steven-neil |
| quote: | Originally posted by djstopngo
I love a good baseball debate. First, let me say that I think there's a sizable learning curve in Beckett and I would be surprised if his second season in the AL resembled his first. As for Schilling, he is getting older, but he's also not the ace and he doesn't need to be. Wakefield doesn't suck, especially for a 5th starter. Papelbon is the best arm to come up in the organization since Clemens - the doctors say his elbow's fine but, I agree, we'll have to wait and see. Matz is a toss up.
Not a top 5 offense? That's simply ridiculous. Drew's a question mark, to be sure, if he's healthy he'll hit around or above .300 and if doesn't we'll soon find out how good Pena is. I think, if given a lot of at bats, Pena can be very good and a suitable replacement. You're right about Coco, offensively he was a bust. Will he rebound? I doubt it. You're wrong about Lugo, he hit around .280 for a team. Put him at the bottom of the order in a good lineup and he'll see a lot of strikes and his numbers will go up. Cut Youk some slack, there's no player Beane wanted more than the greek god and a drop off is exceedingly normal for a player seeing his first ever regular action. He'll be better than fine, he gets on base, can hit the other way and has enough power to hit home runs at Fenway. Varitek is aging, yes. Is there someone any manager would rather have at that position. No. For the hitting, the catching and ability to work with a pitching staff, tek's the best. Fact. Don't forget Lowell, Manny and Ortiz. With the exception of Pena, this lineup has the highest obp in the league and two of the league's best sluggers. That spells success for an offense.
Yes, the yankees have a great offense, probably the best top to bottom. That being said, you guys are wasting A-Rod at third. He's too damn good at short. It sucks that Jeter's such an icon because anybody else with his fielding percentage would've been moved to third by now. Especially considering A-Rod's lackluster performance there this past year.
As for pitching, get serious. Your prospects are nice, Hughes has serious potential. But Pettitte and Pavano are terrible and Mussina's numbers have been on the decline. Good idea to get rid of Johnson but who've you replaced him with? I like Wang but he's not an ace. Rivera is great, nobody would say differently. But in August, who's getting the first 24 outs? Your staff is weak, I think. |
mate im a yankees fan and my wife is true sox,,but i look at your team and its weak...great names but weak...you quote percentages but you still came in third place and a load of games behind us..a rods lackluster performance was far better than most peoples best performances..varitek cant catch wakefield,,mirrabellis gone...i can go on and on and on |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by djstopngo
I love a good baseball debate. First, let me say that I think there's a sizable learning curve in Beckett and I would be surprised if his second season in the AL resembled his first. As for Schilling, he is getting older, but he's also not the ace and he doesn't need to be. Wakefield doesn't suck, especially for a 5th starter. Papelbon is the best arm to come up in the organization since Clemens - the doctors say his elbow's fine but, I agree, we'll have to wait and see. Matz is a toss up.
Not a top 5 offense? That's simply ridiculous. Drew's a question mark, to be sure, if he's healthy he'll hit around or above .300 and if doesn't we'll soon find out how good Pena is. I think, if given a lot of at bats, Pena can be very good and a suitable replacement. You're right about Coco, offensively he was a bust. Will he rebound? I doubt it. You're wrong about Lugo, he hit around .280 for a team. Put him at the bottom of the order in a good lineup and he'll see a lot of strikes and his numbers will go up. Cut Youk some slack, there's no player Beane wanted more than the greek god and a drop off is exceedingly normal for a player seeing his first ever regular action. He'll be better than fine, he gets on base, can hit the other way and has enough power to hit home runs at Fenway. Varitek is aging, yes. Is there someone any manager would rather have at that position. No. For the hitting, the catching and ability to work with a pitching staff, tek's the best. Fact. Don't forget Lowell, Manny and Ortiz. With the exception of Pena, this lineup has the highest obp in the league and two of the league's best sluggers. That spells success for an offense.
Yes, the yankees have a great offense, probably the best top to bottom. That being said, you guys are wasting A-Rod at third. He's too damn good at short. It sucks that Jeter's such an icon because anybody else with his fielding percentage would've been moved to third by now. Especially considering A-Rod's lackluster performance there this past year.
As for pitching, get serious. Your prospects are nice, Hughes has serious potential. But Pettitte and Pavano are terrible and Mussina's numbers have been on the decline. Good idea to get rid of Johnson but who've you replaced him with? I like Wang but he's not an ace. Rivera is great, nobody would say differently. But in August, who's getting the first 24 outs? Your staff is weak, I think. |
i guess i'll start with the yankees pitching. You're right, its not stellar. Wang may not be an ace like clemens, but he is certainly a number one pitcher on most teams. Remember he was second in the cy young votes. In fact, I would say that Wang would be the number 1 on the Sox (without considering Matz, because who the hell knows what's going to come of him?) What else can you ask for out of a 2nd year guy . I'm not keen on Mussina because it seems that in every game he has one inning where the string comes loose and the cat runs away with it. I wouldn't quite say that Mussina has had it but he's close. Remember he did post a 3.51 era and 15 wins in the toughest offensive division in baseball. I totally agree with you on Pettite, but not because he stinks, but because he is taking a spot we could use for a young guy to see what we have. The Japanese guy, Igawa, come on, what kind of was that. Why would you bid 20 whatever million dollars and pay 5 million for 4 or 5 years on someone who is declining in Japan. That's just stupid. Why not aggregate the 27 million (+/-) bid and the 20 million salary and allocate the entire 47 million (+/-) and spend nearly 10 million a season for 5 years on someone proven. Lastly, Pavano, what a ing joke. I would love to have his job, he makes 8 - 9 million a year to injur himself being stupid. The hope for the yankees is the young pitchers. Whether it be because they will help the yanks by actual contributions or as trade bait. withthat said, lets turn back to the sox staff.
I don't think Beckett's year was not a fluke. Remember he pitched in the NL east which was a fairly weak offensive division. Last year was also the first year he pitched 200+ innings so don't be surprised to see him tire next year. You say that Schilling does not need to be the ace. my question to you is, why not??? Who are the sox expecting to be the ace?? If anyone I would want him to be the ace. He posted under a .400 era last year so i would say he has it, but the question is for how long. Look how quickly RJ lost his wheels. Papelbon is your future, but he is still coming off elbow problems, and he was a dominating closer. I'm not sure that translates into a dominating starter. We shall see how that turns out, but i wouldn't be surprised if he went back into the bullpen mid season. I know its hard to accept this as a sox fan, but Wakefield does suck. The only reason you don't see it that way is because he is a good guy who never complains and is usually out there on his turn in the rotation.
As it stands now, the sox have the better rotation, but certainly not the better pitching staff. You have noone in the bullpen. Timlin is your only proven guy and the young guys were all very shaky. The whole closer deal has to concern you. If i was a sox fan i would want papelbon to stay as the closer and find a marginal starter. A good example of how a closer can mess up a season is brandon looper for the mets in 2005. The mets bullpen blow something like 25 - 30 games which definately cost them a playoff spot. A great closer is more important than a good starter. Think about this, a quality starter will win between 13 - 16 games, and a so-so starter will win between 9 -12 games, resulting in a probably difference of 4 wins. A bad closer is more than capable of blowing those 4 games.
Here's where i justify my top 5 offense: Yanks are number one, no explanation needed. White Sox are number 2 (konerko, Dye, Crede, thome). They have 4 guys with 30+ hr. Mets are number 3 (they added alou who still has some pop) and they are way above the rest of the NL east, central, and west. Wright will only get better, however, beltran needs to keep his act together. Fourth, the rangers (michael young, carlos lee, mark texiera). They don't look nasty but they sure get it done. Lastly in fifth, the Phillies. They play in a small ballpark and have Utley and Howard. In my opinion the sox are also right there, but the case can be made that they don't belong in the top 5. If you look at last years stats the sox ranked, 9th(runs), 16th (BA), 7th (OPS), and 10th (HR).
As for specific players:
Lugo, he is a career .280 batter, so your having illusions that he will be better for you.
Drew: I don't care what anyone says about him, he needs to prove something in a non contract year.
Pena: He's a hacker, not a hitter. From what i remember of him he tried hitting every pitch over the fence. That's something many hitters don't rid.
Youk: Im sure he'll do well, but not what everyone thought because of the beginning of last year.
Varitek: I simply don't agree with your assessment. I would rather have pudge rodriquez behind the plate. Im not going to say posada, because while i prefer posada i think much of that has to do with me being a yankees fan.
Lowell, he's also suspect0. His career average is 272 and he slipped bigtime last year.
Manny, well he is who he is. I didn't say anything about him best he's is one of the best hitters in the game.
Ortiz, what can you say about him, damn i hate ortiz. Manny and Ortiz were left out of my last post because they are given.
AROD: Im kind of tired of hearing how AROD is wasting at third. Your right he is better than jeter SS, but so what? He is marginally better than jeter at SS, and it gives us a great 3b man (although he failed to show any of his greatest there last year). And i can careless what offensive numbers a certain position player posts, so where he plays the field should have nothing to do with it. If you had a pitcher that could hit quite regularly you wouldn't stop him from pitching just because he could also hit.
Lastly what are you taling about with, 'as for pitching, get real'. I agree, we suck at pitching, but i think our relieve is better. |
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