Originally posted by Clovis
I'm trying to keep my expectations really ing low here. :p
I remember going to France before the 2004 election and everyone asking me if Bush had a chance, and I was like "no way...after everything he's done, no way"
Boy did I feel like an idiot...
When less than 30% of the electorate participate in elections...the president essentially is chosen by the elites..
chach
who the is joe biden? like the rapper?
Sunsnail
woooo biden
jonSun
Obama sent me a text asking me what i thought of his decision. I told him to go for it.
Clovis
Obama sent me a text asking if JonSun was really black, and I said yes.
Allied Nations
Obama never sent me any text messages :(
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
What people, other than like minded far left leaning liberal dems does he seem willing to work with? Say what you want about McCain, but at least he crosses the aisle... what piece of legislation has Obama ever worked on with those who don't believe exactly as he does?
Lugar and Hagel. That's all I'm going to give you because your statement isn't worth the 10 seconds it takes to look that up on google.
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He's willing to negotiate... with rogue america hating dictators with no preconditions, but he won't visit U.S. troops in the hospitals.
Right, and the Pentagon's explicit request that he skip that visit in Germany does nothing to exonerate it? Even the McCain campaign released a retraction for going after him on that initially.
Pathetic criticisms man... you really do scrape the bottom of the barrel every time you talk about Obama. You parrot people like Rush Limbaugh on everything. If you're going to criticize, at least give us something legitimate. Everything you give is subjective or wrong (raising taxes? please).
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You all love his story and want to believe it, just like everyone wanted to believe John Edwards heart warming story... but where is the substance? Can anyone give me 3 achievements that he's had which qualify him for this job? 1 achievement?
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Obama's Accomplishments
After the truly humiliating moment last night on MSNBC, when an Obama surrogate was massacred by Chris Matthews for not being able to name any of Barack's accomplishments in the Sentate, I thought it might be worthwhile to do some research on the topic myself. So, here's a partial list from one of Obama's supporters of some of his accomplishments (Here I'm including only what he's accomplished in the U.S. Senate, but the original poster also lists a number of accomplishments from his time in the Illinois Senate:
In his first two years in the U.S. Senate, Barack Obama was back in his familiar role as member of the minority party. Republicans tightly controlled the U.S. Senate, and it was very difficult for any Democratic Senator to get a bill passed. During that time, Senator Obama sponsored 152 bills and resolutions, and cosponsored 427 more.
Senator Obama thus far has two bills which became law, that have his name on them. The Lugar-Obama bill which I've already discussed, expands efforts to destroy WMDs (e.g. in the former Soviet states). And the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act. The Transparency Act created a website managed by OMB for ensuring transparency of funds allocated to government agencies. It tracks all federal spending, and allows Google-type searches based on agency, types of funding, etc.
One of his first bills after being elected to the U.S. Senate was a proposal to increased Pell Grants, thereby fulfilling a campaign promise. Unfortunately, in the tightly controlled Republican Senate, this bill didn't make it out of committee.
Perhaps his most impressive accomplishment in the U.S. Senate happened on January 18, 2007. That is when the Senate passed a major ethics/lobbying reform bill. (Senator Obama had voted against a prior ethics reform bill that he said wasn't tough enough.) Newspapers give Senators Obama and Russ Feingold significant credit for insisting that this latest ethics bill included tough measures. Obama risked some political capital to get this bill passed. The bill bans gifts/meals from lobbyists; puts an end to subsidized corporate jets; requires full disclosure of earmarks (who are the earmarks for, and for what purpose); places restrictions on retiring members of Congress going immediately into lobbying; requires lobbyists to disclose bundling of contributions to Congress, candidates or committees. This was a HUGE victory for Senator Obama. It still needs to be reconciled with a House version of the bill, and then signed by the president.
Senator Democratic leader Harry Reid has designated Barack Obama as the Democrats' point man on ethics, citing three reasons for his selection: whenever Obama walks into a room, everyone stops talking and listens to what he has to say; Obama is known for having unquestionable ethics and integrity; Obama's expertise on ethics and campaign reform while in Springfield made him a leading expert on those same issues in the U.S. Senate. This last point can't be emphasized enough. The fact that Obama mastered, and led the fight, on so many complex political issues in eight years in Springfield gave him a huge head start in addressing the same complex issues at the federal level.
Senator Obama has also sponsored the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007. It would cap troops at January 10, 2007 levels, begin withdrawal by May 1, 2007, and call for complete withdrawal of combat brigades by March 31 of 2008. Withdrawal would be postponed if Iraq meets certain benchmarks. This is consistent with the Iraq Study Group. (Solely from memory, I believe this study group was chaired by Lee Hamilton and James Baker III.) Bill Richardson wants complete withdrawal by end of 2007. Hillary Clinton has called for a phased withdrawal of troops starting in 90 days. John Edwards 40,000-50,000 troops withdrawn immediately, and the remainder withdrawn within 12-18 months.
Senator Obama also has experience and judgment on foreign policy. He is on the senate committees for foreign relations; homeland security; veterans affairs; health, education, labor and pensions. He studied political science with an emphasis on international relations and Columbia. And he's gone on three major trips overseas as part of an official Senate delegation, meeting with U.S. generals, and/or foreign leaders. He and Senator Lugar travelled to the former Soviet states to inspect the destruction of WMDs; he traveled to Iraq and met with U.S. generals, and also toured Kuwait, Jordan, Israel, Palestinian territories (he told Palestinian Authority President MahMoud Abbas that US would never recognize Hamas leaders until they renounced mission to eliminate Israel.); he visited various African countries, including Kenya (his father's homeland), and publicly took an AIDS test to show people in Africa that it was ok and even socially responsible to have an AIDS test.
He has backed various plans for lessening reliance on Middle East oil. He has offered the big three domestic automakers a deal: the federal government pays 10% of health care costs of their retired employees, if the automakers will commit to building more fuel efficient cars. He has also called for increased fuel efficiency standards (3 percent every year for 15 years). He's encouraged use of ethnanol as an alternative fuel.
It's worth noting, as the article quoted above does, that during most of his tenure both in Springfield and Washington, he was in the minority party, which in itself stymied his ability to pass legislation. But in both cases, he still managed to work in a bi-partisan way to get legislation through the process. That all by itself is a pretty remarkable accomplishment. It might be good if some of the talking heads they send out to support him had this information in front of them.
I do love how Republicans disown their best Senator (Lugar) whenever they want to ignore Obama's bipartisanship but then marvel at McCain's bipartisanship on campaign finance reform, something they took him to task for years ago and something he's reneged on since.
Lebezniatnikov
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Originally posted by chach
who the is joe biden? like the rapper?
From what I posted elsewhere:
It's official. Unconfirmed reports ran rampant last night, and though the timing seems awfully odd, the confirmation came in the middle of the night in the form of a brief email from Obama to supporters saying that Joe Biden is his No. 2.
I've made no secret about my support for Biden from the beginning of the primaries 19 months ago. This choice by Obama signals a sharp re-tooling of the debate between McCain and Obama going forward. McCain of course is going to highlight a few choice quotes from Biden about Obama from when they were running against one another last November. I don't think those are going to be terribly effectual, however. They were given a long time ago and don't reflect the growth we've seen this campaign season. I too worried about Obama's readiness last summer, but now that I've seen him stump and campaign for a year and a half I feel very comfortable with the notion of an Obama presidency. I'm sure Joe feels the same way, which will be made abundantly clear this afternoon.
In any case, there are several people who have already highlighted the negatives of adding Biden to the ticket. He has a long record of "on-the-record" quotes that include more than a few that he'd probably take back. But frankly, I want a candidate that will speak his mind, no restraint for political considerations. When Biden speaks off the cuff on foreign policy, that is when he is at his best.
Here's Ezra Klein's take:
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VEEPSTAKES: THE CASE FOR BIDEN.
biden.jpg
[DC is abuzz with talk of Joe Biden for vice president today. Rather than just repeat myself on why I think that's a good idea, I'm just going to republish this post explaining why I think it's a good idea. The only thing I'd really add is that in the months since I wrote it -- it was originally a June posting -- Obama has shown himself more, not less, in need of an attack dog able to engage McCain on national security.]
EJ Dionne's column arguing that Joe Biden should be considered for Obama's VP slot makes a lot of sense. Biden is, arguably, the most effective voice Democrats have on foreign policy. And here's why: Joe Biden is an incredibly arrogant jerk. And that's exactly what Democrats need.
Over the years, Biden has gotten some things right and some things wrong. He's been a mainstream liberal on domestic policy, on foreign policy, on judges, on just about everything. Along with Richard Lugar, he pushed a compromise bill that would've slowed the president's rush to war in Iraq, and maybe derailed it entirely. But if Biden sought to outmaneuver the president, he didn't simply oppose him outright. Since then, however, he's been considerably more outspoken, and has pushed some smartly strategic approaches, including calling for the repeal of the 2002 Iraq War Resolution. "We gave the president that power to destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and, if necessary, to depose Saddam Hussein. The WMD were not there. Saddam Hussein is no longer there. The 2002 authorization is no longer relevant to the situation in Iraq...[We need a resolution that] makes clear what the mission of our troops is."
In the 2008 election, he was the only Democrat who really figured out how to talk about Republicans and foreign policy. All the other candidates on the stage started from the presumption that Republicans were strong on national security, and voters needed to be convinced of their failures and then led to a place of support for a Democratic alternative. Biden dispensed with all that. He started from the position that Republicans had been catastrophic failures on foreign policy, and their ongoing claims to competence and leadership should be laughed at, and even mocked.
When Rudy Giuliani said, simply, "America will be safer with a Republican president," Obama responded with a traditional, more-in-sadness-than-in-anger statement. "Rudy Giuliani today has taken the politics of fear to a new low and I believe Americans are ready to reject those kind of politics. America’s mayor should know that when it comes to 9/11 and fighting terrorists, America is united." The release goes on in this way for eight more lines.
Biden, by contrast, laughed at Giuliani. He mocked him. "The irony is, Rudy Giuliani, probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency, is here talking about any of the people here," said Biden at one of the debates. "Rudy Giuliani... I mean, think about it! Rudy Giuliani. There's only three things he mentions in a sentence -- a noun, a verb, and 9/11. There's nothing else!" Giuliani, of course, took umbrage, and said Biden lacked foreign policy experience. This led to my favorite YouTube of the campaign, in which Biden dismantles Giuliani, live on television, while walking to his car.
Is Biden perfect? Nope. He's gaffe prone, has voted on twelve million pieces of legislation, and has spent more than half his adult life in the Senate. But then, so has John McCain. And Biden, who's got a long history of bipartisanship in the Senate and deep ties to the institution, would probably prove a pretty effective emissary when Obama needs a couple more votes for this or that piece of legislation.
Moreover, Biden is an attack dog. He's serenely self confident in his own national security credentials, and never seems surprised to hear himself attacking Republicans on the issue. He radiates comfort with the issue, rather than simply asserting it. The press corps is used to him as a foreign policy voice, and trusts his experience. And, most importantly, he's an arrogant jerk. That's led him to adopt precisely the right attitude of contempt and disbelief at Republicans who seek to dominate the foreign policy arena in this country. And that may make him exactly the right voice for Democrats who want to drive a few more nails into the coffin of the GOP's reputation.
How awesome is that video? That's the beauty of Biden. He'll say the things Obama is too restrained to say. The knock within establishment circles against Obama is that he won't go after John McCain... his attack ads are almost like "John McCain did this horrible thing... but at heart he's a nice guy." The GOP has shown again and again they have no hesitancy in going for the throat (or below the belt). You can bet that Biden will offer a response. Nobody is better at mocking ridiculous positions than Biden.
Furthermore, the choice signifies a sweeping shift in the foreign policy debate:
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In choosing Joe Biden as his running mate, Barack Obama is gambling that Biden's many strengths will compensate for his own weaknesses as a candidate, rather than serve as a backdrop against which those weaknesses will appear in sharp relief.
You've already heard much about Biden's strengths on paper and how they shore up Obama's weaknesses: He's one of the most knowledgeable about international affairs in the Democratic Party; he's Catholic; he has decades of D.C. experience.
But Biden brings another key strength: He's extremely effective when he goes on the attack on foreign policy. Rather than whine about how mean Republicans are when they hit Dems on national security, as so many Dems do, Biden has a real talent for responding with an appropriate mixture of mockery and contempt.
When Biden takes aim at Republicans on foreign policy, he exudes a strong sense of authority on the topic that tends to shrivel his target into a cartoonish figure rather quickly. Exhibit number one of this trait is Biden's now-infamous "noun, verb, 9/11" claim about Rudy Giuliani. Another choice example of this is here.
Biden, ultimately, shares and embodies one of the core convictions driving Obama's campaign: That Democrats can win an argument about national security with Republicans, and shouldn't run from a fight on the topic or concede any sort of presumed GOP superiority on it.
Biden's charisma and authority on the subject add a ton of firepower to Obama's arsenal in this regard, allowing Biden to act as an extremely credible voice to deliver the message that the GOP approach to foreign policy in the 21st Century has been a sad, sick joke. One has to pity the poor chump who will be facing Biden across the Veep debate table in a few weeks.
So all in all I am excited because I got exactly what I wanted - an attack dog who makes the foreign policy debate that much more meaningful and intelligent. All McCain has left for foreign policy credentials in his pocket is his POW experience, and we're already seeing that line wear thin. Now we're going to talk about world view, foreign policy agendas, and the visions of how America fits in the world.
Bring it on.
verndogs
Not surprised Obama chose Biden as his running mate
RJT
I am very, very pleased right now. :happy2:
Biden will give the simple answers that Obama won't - they'll just also more often than not sound like "Oh yeah, that - this is really the way is, if you don't like it, off."
America needs a healthy dose of " off" right now.
Ek0nomik
Biden is so goofy. I loved listening to him during the debates.
Plenty of gaffes on Biden's end will be used in attack ad's, so that should be fun to watch the twist on those. :stongue:
