Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
I've been hearing rumors about some supposed tape for days now.
I've heard about them for weeks. The first place was the blog of Paul Johnson, a Hillary supporter, as I posted earlier in this thread.
I still have a lot of skepticism toward these allegations, of course. Anyway, here's a longer segment with some more speculation about the supposed "tape":
Lebezniatnikov
That's also Fox. When it appears on a channel that has a decent track-record on not spreading rumors and misinformation about Barack Obama, I'll start paying attention.
MrJiveBoJingles
In other news, the Reverend Michael Pfleger, longtime friend of Obama, preached a sermon from Obama's (now former) church, declaring that "America is the greatest sin against God."
This was after the revelation of his mockery of Clinton and what he (Pfleger) apparently thought was her "white entitlement" mentality:
quote:
"Rev. Moss, when Hillary was crying, and people said that was put on, I really don't believe it was put on," Pfleger says from the pulpit. "I really believe that she just always thought, 'This is mine! I'm Bill's wife, I'm white, and this is mine! I just gotta get up and step into the plate.' And then out of nowhere came, 'Hey, I'm Barack Obama,' and she said, 'Oh, damn! Where did you come from? I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!'
Pfleger then mocks her crying, much to delight of the crowd, many of whom stand up and applaud.
"She wasn't the only one crying, there was a whole lot of white people crying!" Pfleger says to laughter.
The tape, which just shows this one controversial part of Pfleger's sermon, then cuts to Moss thanking Pfleger: "We thank God for the message, we thank God for the messenger, we thank God for Father Michael Pfleger," Moss says.
Pfleger later issued an apology, and of course Obama had to "distance" himself from yet another longtime associate.
The guy's candidacy is dead in the water, IMO. At this point it's immaterial to me whether the alleged "whitey tape" is real; he doesn't have a chance in the general.
I'd love to be proven wrong, since I do prefer him to McCain, but that's my assessment at this time.
Lebezniatnikov
JBJ, I think you're an intelligent fellow, but I don't know what in the world you're smoking. Pfleger? You really think that's going to bring down Obama? That's small dice compared to the number of people John McCain's pastor friends have condemned to hell.
quote:
In 2005, The American Prospect assigned me a story about the rising political star of Ohio televangelist Rod Parsley and how this white mega-church pastor -- who this year endorsed John McCain -- managed to rally African-Americans to vote for George W. Bush in 2004. As I embarked on my reporting, my first foray into Parsley's world was watching him speak to a mostly African-American crowd at Washington's Constitution Hall, promoting his book, Silent No More. He called for a "revolution" and implored the audience to "get on a war footing" because the "church of Jesus Christ is under siege," mostly by the "false religion" of Islam and weak-kneed secularists.
But as I delved deeper into Parsley, I found another insidious story to tell about the culture warrior who fancies his Center for Moral Clarity a successor to Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority. I found myself in the world of the Word of Faith, or prosperity gospel movement, a world in which televangelists live large in mansions they call parsonages and travel the globe in private jets, all off the donations of their credulous followers.
You've probably seen the prosperity gospel on television if you've surfed past the Trinity Broadcasting Network, where you could see Parsley, John Hagee, who also endorsed McCain, or Kenneth Copeland, who supported Mike Huckabee. Prosperity preachers tell their followers that if they "sow a seed" -- in other words, donate to the televangelist -- they will "reap a harvest," or get a supernatural return on their investment. The promise of God's blessing in return for lining the preachers' pocket is the movement's organizing principle, bolstered by promises that believers are "little gods" who possess "revelation knowledge" entitling them to ignore the media and academia, and the ability to positively confess things -- that is, just say, "in the name of Jesus, that Cadillac is mine!"
Operating their churches with an iron hand and complete secrecy around their finances, these televangelists command their troops by declaring themselves prophets, God's "anointed," not to be criticized or questioned. "Touch not mine anointed ones, and do my prophets no harm," a verse from Psalms, is invoked as their autocratic shield. It's that secrecy that provoked a Senate Finance Committee investigation into the financial affairs of six of them, including Copeland, who continues to refuse to cooperate with Congressional investigators. Because they view the world through the prism of spiritual warfare, anyone who questions their doctrine or their wealth must be instruments of Satan.
Revelation knowledge lies at the heart of this autocratic movement's powerful hold. Don't let Satan eclipse what revelation knowledge tells you. Revelation knowledge always trumps reason. If this movement's followers believe that they only need to listen to God's word, as delivered through the mouths of their pastors, and that the media, scholarship, and reason are to be ignored, what does this say about the political choices, not to mention the life choices, followers of this movement make?
The embrace of these televangelists by Republican politicians -- exposed in my new book, God's Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters -- elevates them in the eyes of their followers and promotes their ideology as moral and pure. Parsley, whom McCain called a "moral compass" and "spiritual guide," proudly boasts about how presidential candidates seek his advice. Hagee claims the admiration of the White House, members of Congress from both parties (Joe Lieberman has compared him to Moses), Republican Party officials, and even the former director of the CIA, James Woolsey. When President Bush compared Barack Obama to Nazi appeasers last week, he was tipping his hat to Hagee, who routinely charges political enemies with appeasement as well, while portraying himself and his followers as modern-day Churchills.
There's a great deal of overlap between the Word of Faith movement and Hagee's Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Many of the organization's regional and state directors, including Parsley, Copeland, and others, are Word of Faith preachers. But the overlap is not just a result of Hagee's friends getting on board with his Christian Zionist project. It's because Word of Faith thrives -- and profits -- on the fear-mongering narratives that animate CUFI's activism. Godly forces (Christianity) are locked in battle with Satanic forces (Islam). These Satanic forces aim to subvert God's plan that Jerusalem remain in exclusively Jewish hands in order for Christ to return and rule the world from the Temple Mount. Before all of that happens, though, the Rapture will whisk all believing Christians up to heaven to spare them from the turmoil below until Jesus returns. To make sure as many people get raptured as possible, the Word of Faith preachers insist, they need more of your money to save as many souls before it happens. Since they are adamant that the Rapture could happen at any time -- it could happen while you're reading these words -- time is of the essence, so send in your money right away.
If you were to turn on your television and watch Parsley or Hagee, you would undoubtedly see them pleading for money. But you might also see Parsley calling for spiritual warfare against Satan, faith-healing homosexuals from the "bondage" of their sin, or prophesying a bloody apocalyptic showdown with Islam out of secret codes in Genesis. You might see Hagee proclaiming that he doesn't care if someone who doesn't work starves, because welfare is satanic. He might be calling environmentalists "wackos" or feminism witchcraft or describing the Bible's plan for men to maintain authority over their wives or predicting God's wrath on the United States if it supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Watching Word of Faith on television, though, is nothing compared to experiencing it -- sitting in the pews while everyone stares you down for not waving your offering envelope in the air, watching a televangelist demand money while people are in an ecstatic religious state; or being crushed by a euphoric crowd at a faith-healing service, during which Parsley claimed he had healed a baby born without a brain, and moments later bragged about how he's a coveted guest in the halls of Congress.
That Republican presidential candidates have sought out the support of Word of Faith preachers for the past three decades is due to more than their quest to consolidate the evangelical vote. No doubt these free-market conservatives were unperturbed by the prospect of hoodwinking believers into turning to Jesus to provide for their needs, as their policies dismantled the social safety net and gave away big tax cuts to corporations and the uber-wealthy. No doubt these crusaders for "individual responsibility" loved nothing more than the idea that wealth is produced by faith, not by the government's economic policy, and that one's failure to produce wealth was due to a lack of faith, a lack of obedience to God, and nothing more. And there is no doubt that Bush, Cheney, and their band of neoconservative outlaws who led us into one catastrophic war and might lead us into another have been more than pleased to have these faith-based cheerleaders on the sidelines.
When Hagee and Parsley were revealed to have spewed bigotry from their pulpits, many people wondered if McCain had a "pastor problem" like Obama's supposed problem with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The rejoinder from the McCain camp was that he was not responsible for every sentence uttered by people who endorse his candidacy. But his pastor problem is not just his own, it's his party's too. And it's not about candidates bearing responsibility for odious sermons. It's about bearing responsibility for propping up religious demagoguery in order to win elections.
While news media have focused on Barack Obama's pastor Jeremiah Wright, little attention has been paid to the endorsement of Republican presidential candidate John McCain by controversial Texas televangelist John Hagee. Hagee has voiced extreme anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish and anti-homosexual views. In a September 2006 interview on National Public Radio, Hagee reaffirmed his view that Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment against New Orleans for hosting a homosexual parade. Hagee has also said that the Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves by "turning away from the true God." He referred to Catholicism as a "false cult," and said the religion contributed to Hitler's anti-semitic views. When Hagee endorsed him, McCain said he was "proud" to have the pastor's support. More recently, McCain has been working to distance himself from Hagee's inflammatory comments.
McCain's Pastor Problem: The Video
In a taped sermon, the preacher McCain calls a "spiritual guide" calls on America to see the "false religion" of Islam "destroyed." Still, the candidate won't reject Rod Parsley's endorsement." />
David Corn" />
May 08" /> , 2008" /> During a 2005 sermon, a fundamentalist pastor whom Senator John McCain has praised and campaigned with called Islam "the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world," claiming that the historic mission of America is to see "this false religion destroyed." In this taped sermon, currently sold by his megachurch, the Reverend Rod Parsley reiterates and amplifies harsh and derogatory comments about Islam he made in his book, Silent No More, published the same year he delivered these remarks. Meanwhile, McCain has stuck to his stance of not criticizing Parsley, an important political ally in a crucial swing state.
In March 2008—two weeks after McCain appeared with Parsley at a Cincinnati campaign rally, hailing him as "one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide"—Mother Jones reported that Parsley had urged Christians to wage a "war" to eradicate Islam in his 2005 book. McCain's campaign refused to respond to questions about Parsley, and the presumptive Republican presidential nominee declined to denounce Parsley's anti-Islam remarks or renounce his endorsement. At a time when Barack Obama was mired in a searing controversy involving Reverend Jeremiah Wright, McCain escaped any trouble for his political alliance with Parsley, who leads the World Harvest Church, a supersized Pentecostal institution in Columbus, Ohio. Parsley, whose sermons are broadcast around the world, has been credited with helping George W. Bush win Ohio in 2004 by registering social conservatives and encouraging them to vote. McCain certainly would like to see Parsley do the same for him—which could explain his reluctance to do any harm to his relationship with this anti-Islam extremist.
Here's a video—produced by Mother Jones and Brave New films—highlighting Parsley's remarks and McCain's praise of the pastor:
In the 2005 sermon, Parsley repeatedly blasts Islam. "It is not a God of love that is presented to those of the Islamic faith," he tells his parishioners. He notes that 9/11 was not "anything new," describing the terrorist attack as merely the latest battle in "a war between Islam and Christian civilization...raging for centuries." Speaking from the pulpit, and wiping sweat from his brow, Parsley exclaims,
I can't begin to tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam. That we see it for what it really is. In fact...I do not believe that our nation can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam…I know that this statement sounds extreme. But I am not shrinking back from its implications. The fact is that...America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed. And I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we no longer can afford to ignore.
Parsley approvingly quotes Christian theologian Jonathan Edwards' reference to Islam as "Satan's Mohammedan kingdom." He points out that the United States' first war—the battle against the Barbary Coast pirates—was "waged against Muslim pirates who took our people captive because they believed in a Jesus crucified by the Jews." (With that one statement, Parsley slams both Islam and Judaism.) He repeatedly refers to the United States' "historic conflict with Islam," and adds, "We have no choice. The time has come. In fact, we may be already losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam at this moment is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, more devastation than nearly any other force on Earth."
With the crowd in the pews listening intently, Parsley continues to denigrate Islam, claiming that the religion itself was responsible for 9/11 and that hostility and violence is "the spirit that has come to fill Islam or perhaps that Islam encompassed from the very beginning." He tries to frighten his followers:
This is about to freak you out...Since September 11, 2001, 34,000 Americans have become Muslims...This means that thousands of Americans have embraced the very religion that inspired the worst assault upon their nation in a generation. Did you know that there are some 1,209 mosques in America? Twenty-five percent of which have been built since 1994. Did you know that there are nearly a billion and a half Muslims in the world...But how would you know it? After all, it's not in People magazine.
According to Parsley, there's no coexisitng with Muslims. He tells the tale of a Christian man who once dared to sell land to a mosque rather than to a church—an ominous sign that Christianity is losing the struggle against Islam. "You need to understand today" who was responsible for 9/11, Parsley nearly shouts. "Muslim Islamic fundamentalists and extremists are what did that, and your government and politicians and preachers want you to snuggle up next door to them and allow them to build a mosque next door to your church, while you sing hallelujah."
The preacher paints a dark picture:
Islam is growing rapidly and is becoming more violent. America has historically understood herself to be a bastion against Islam in the world…History is crashing in upon us...Americans need to wake up...We can tell you...Britney Spears' lyrics to her latest CD. But we don't know anything about other religions...'We ought to just all get along'...'We shouldn't say anything about other faiths.' Excuse me. Excuse me. The fact is that Americans are woefully ignorant of other faiths. This is not only tragic. But when it comes to Islam, now the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world, it's dangerous.
The problem, Parsley insists, is not radical Muslims who have hijacked a faith, but the religion itself:
I must state three important truths...No. 1, the God of Christianity and the God of Islam are two separate beings...Mr. Bush, I support you. You need to stop saying that the God of Islam and the God of Christianity are the same God...No. 2, Muhammad received revelations from demon spirits, not from the living God. No. 3, Islam is an anti-Christ religion that intends, through violence, to conquer the world. Did you get those three truths?
In a long riff, Parsley maintains that Muhammad was tricked by a demon into believing that he had heard the word of God. Thus, he asserts, the entire religion of Islam is based upon a satanic deception: "Muhammad was tragically beset by a demon which he mistook for the living God. He thus became a mouthpiece of a conspiracy of spiritual evil...There are so few who will talk about [this]."
But Parsley is willing. And he also readily offered McCain his endorsement during that February 26, 2008, campaign rally in Cincinnati. At the event, McCain extolled Parsley for his "leadership" and "guidance." Since then, McCain aides have said that the senator's acceptance of Parsley's endorsement was not an endorsement of Parsley's views. And they have dismissed any comparison between Reverend Wright and Reverend Parsley, noting that McCain has never attended a service conducted by Parsley. But imagine if Barack Obama had campaigned with an imam who had called for destroying Christianity. A media and political uproar would ensue—with wide-ranging calls for Obama to condemn the imam.
McCain has also refused to reject the endorsement he received from the Reverend John Hagee, a Texas-based televangelist who referred to the Catholic Church as "the great whore" and a "false cult system" and who called Hurricane Katrina retribution from God for the sins of New Orleans' homosexual residents. But Parsley may be the more politically crucial pastor for McCain. McCain probably cannot win Ohio in November without the support of large numbers of social conservative voters. In 2004, Parsley, whose megachurch boasts thousands of members, led so-called values voters to the polls, where they helped propel George W. Bush to victory over John Kerry. If McCain were to repudiate Parsley, he would risk losing Parsley as a surrogate and, perhaps worse, alienate his flock. So McCain has ducked, keeping quiet about an anti-Islam extremist who repeatedly proclaims in sermons, "I will be silent no more."
David Corn is Mother Jones' Washington, D.C. bureau chief.
The guy's candidacy is dead in the water, IMO. At this point it's immaterial to me whether the alleged "whitey tape" is real; he doesn't have a chance in the general.
I'd love to be proven wrong, since I do prefer him to McCain, but that's my assessment at this time.
:wtf:
I don't think you've proven any point at all, that is unless you've been to the future and seen this all play out already.
Seriously though, do you really think this kind of will cost him the election and McCain's skeleton's will just never come out of the closet?
:conf:
Honestly, I never pegged you for a conspiracy kid, but that really seems to be the drum you're banging here.
MrJiveBoJingles
Of course McCain has major issues as well and his pastor friends are at least as crazy as Obama's. I'm in complete agreement on that.
But, as far as I know, none of his issues involve race, which this election cycle has proven (in case there was anyone who didn't already know) is still the most sensitive and divisive issue in this country.
That's the difference, and (IMO) that is what will bring down the Obama campaign.
I hope I'm wrong.
MrJiveBoJingles
Larry Johnson is now claiming more specific things about the alleged "whitey" tape:
quote:
Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan Take On Whitey
By Larry Johnson
I learned over the weekend why the Republicans who have seen the tape of Michelle Obama ranting about "whitey" describe it as "STUNNING." I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape. It features Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan. They are sitting on a panel at Jeremiah Wright's Church when Michelle makes her intemperate remarks [about "whitey"]. Whoops!! When that image comes out it will enter the politcal ads hall of fame. It will be right up there with the little girl plucking daisy petals in the famous 1964 ad LBJ used against Barry Goldwater.
Johnson has been wrong before, of course, so I hope he is this time.
RJT
Well I understand where you're coming from, but honestly I don't think your sentiment, nor most of the information you have, are shared by the general populous.
I just think that in order for any of these things you're bringing up to become and issue they actually have to hit the mass media, and we'll see how the public responds then. I'm just not sure it's going to get to that point (at least now), nor am I convinced that if it does, that many people will be more concerned at these kinds of issues than those of McCain.
And I also think that what you say about this election proving that race is still the most sensitive and divisive issue in America is true to a point, but also that for exactly that reason it's foolish to predict how the general populous will react to them.
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Of course McCain has major issues as well and his pastor friends are at least as crazy as Obama's. I'm in complete agreement on that.
But, as far as I know, none of his issues involve race, which this election cycle has proven (in case there was anyone who didn't already know) is still the most sensitive and divisive issue in this country.
That's the difference, and (IMO) that is what will bring down the Obama campaign.
I hope I'm wrong.
Race obviously wasn't divisive enough to prevent him from winning the Democratic primary... it's not like there weren't other good options on the table (cough Edwards cough).
pkcRAISTLIN
if the american public deem it fit to reward the republicans for their atrocious record over the last 8 years by returning yet another republican president, what little faith in humanity i have shall be forever cast into the void.
Ang ' ela_ie
I started watching WW again, and Id like to say (again) that Moira Kelly (Mandy) is the most annoying actress in the world.
I know, this has nothing to do with "Obama, for the win."
Lebezniatnikov
quote:
Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie
I started watching WW again, and Id like to say (again) that Moira Kelly (Mandy) is the most annoying actress in the world.
I know, this has nothing to do with "Obama, for the win."
Amy Gardner is the most attractive human being in the world, so it evened out during Season 3.
