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Obama, for the win. (pg. 60)
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| MeLLyMeL |
I actually think Eco has a small point. He isn't saying every Hillary supporter that won't vote come November is doing it to spite obama supporters or beacause they're racist. But there is a percentage of people who will shy away from Obama because they do not want a black president.
You have to be blind to not see that. Especially with all the white power people in this country.
I just don't think he's got the catholic/christian/jewish votes. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Have you guys ever, for just one second, thought about it? |
Yes, I have. So have many of the other people posting in this thread.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Do you really think Hillary dropping out now (or two months ago) would have a big impact for that big number of people you guys are saying wouldn't vote for Obama? |
Yes, I do.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Don't be so naive; both with racism in this country and his own character and personal flaws, stop blaming ONLY Clinton for "splitting up the party" because she's still in the race. |
First, his pastor's personal flaws do not equal his own, and unless there's some other massive character flaw running amok in the media that I don't know about, I imagine that's what you're referring to. Second, race has absolutely nothing to do with why people are upset with Hilary right now. Go on, I'll give you a minute to re-read the thread...
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Now I'm hoping that you've seen the possibility of Clinton even getting the nod is between slim and none, therefore, the problem with her staying in the race isn't that she's "ruining" Obama, it's that she's drawing attention away from far more important matters that should be debated right now between the two presidential candidates, and not between Hilary and Obama.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Think for a second that, MAYBE, that 30% of Clinton-supporters that isn't voting for Obama might not have voted for him in November regardless. There's a large group of people outside of Obama supporters that don't think he's the second coming of Christ, like his supporters do (and many people on here do). |
Show me some data that says the bulk of Hilary supporters are going to jump ship before you spout such nonsense. And saying "you all worship him as the second coming of Christ" pretty much sums up the issue you have with him - his own popularity. I've been surrounded by people like you all year who just don't want to like Obama sheerly because of the so called "hype."
Just like a Deadmau5 thread! :gsmile:
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Granted, I'll be uniting under the Obama ticket in November as I wish were the case for all democrats, but stop taking the easy way out by blaming Clinton for all of this, and realize that, uh, he might not be the perfect candidate. |
No one has even for a minute claimed that he is the perfect candidate (that would be Morgan Freeman).
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
He's not that lovable to a large percentage of this country and I hate to say it, but maybe this big % within the Dem party that says "we won't vote for Obama in November" is just a manifestation of the deep racism that lies in our country. It's their less racist version of saying "I don't want a black man as president." Not everyone is full of "hope" and "change" like the 18-25 year olds that are coming out in huge numbers for him. |
Again, you can say all this - but that doesn't make it true, nor does it provide any real reason for any of us to think that what you say will happen will actually happen (And AKAIK, there's more Democratic Senators saying that if Hilary gets the nod, they simply won't vote in November at all, than there are those saying the same for Hilary).
You can play the race card all you want - people will for decades because of the amount of racism that still exists in this country - but do you really think that people who would vote for Hilary wouldn't vote for Barack because of the color of his skin or the fact that Jeremiah Wright has been in the press?
Anecdotal evidence strikes yet again on tranceaddict.com/forums - you've got to love it. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
LOL Yeah that came out wrong.. |
Hehehe.
Anyway, regarding what you said, I've got one piece of advice to my American brethren: whites, blacks, asians, native americans, latinos, jews, every bloody "ethnic group" out there till you're all the same colour... Racism should be thought with love :D
(it kinda worked here in Brazil, heh) |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Hehehe.
Anyway, regarding what you said, I've got one piece of advice to my American brethren: whites, blacks, asians, native americans, latinos, jews, every bloody "ethnic group" out there till you're all the same colour... Racism should be thought with love :D
(it kinda worked here in Brazil, heh) |
Who are you? Obviously not Lira because Lira would never want Asians to be blended into the same color as everyone else. Lira loves Asians as much as Yan. |
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| jfk-pilot |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Just like a Deadmau5 thread! :gsmile:
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:) |
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| DJ Eco |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
First, his pastor's personal flaws do not equal his own, and unless there's some other massive character flaw running amok in the media that I don't know about, I imagine that's what you're referring to. Second, race has absolutely nothing to do with why people are upset with Hilary right now. |
You're preaching to the choir, dude. Not only did the Wright situation really not phase me when it first broke out, but that's not even what I meant by those remarks. Neither Wright, Obama, or anything/anyone in the past year is going to change the common sense and simple fact that this country's full of a bunch of racists. It goes beyond Election 2008.
| quote: | | Show me some data that says the bulk of Hilary supporters are going to jump ship before you spout such nonsense. |
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/M...ers-McCain.aspx <--- I can't find it right now but it reached over 30% this past month. You can take the easy way out and say "Oh well, the tone of Clinton's campaign was negative and is destroying the party," or you can look beyond Election 2008 and say that, maybe 30% of Democrats wouldn't want a black man in office.
| quote: | | And saying "you all worship him as the second coming of Christ" pretty much sums up the issue you have with him - his own popularity. |
Well, someone replying to me within seconds calling me an idealist proves my point. If ever in the history of American politics, was there a presidential race based more on idealism (things like hope, change, and the idea that a 3-year black Junior Senator should lead the country), this is it. I'm not saying it's a huge negative thing, I'm just pointing that out.
| quote: | | Again, you can say all this - but that doesn't make it true, nor does it provide any real reason for any of us to think that what you say will happen will actually happen. |
Not saying anything is 100% happening, just giving an alternative view to the people in the back that think "OMG@#@#$ Hillary is ruining the party!!!!" Uh no, this is the United States Of America, and we haven't been united since 1776.
| quote: | | You can play the race card all you want - people will for decades because of the amount of racism that still exists in this country - but do you really think that people who would vote for Hilary wouldn't vote for Barack because of the color of his skin or the fact that Jeremiah Wright has been in the press? |
Yes.
| quote: | | Anecdotal evidence strikes yet again on tranceaddict.com/forums - you've got to love it. |
Next time I'll be sure to pull out numbers from the Gallup polls as to how many people in this country don't like black people, to support my claims. Look, I'm voting for him, and ideally, I would love to say 100% of Hillary voters are voting for him too. But, that's not happening, and don't entirely blame Hillary for that. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/M...ers-McCain.aspx <--- I can't find it right now but it reached over 30% this past month. You can take the easy way out and say "Oh well, the tone of Clinton's campaign was negative and is destroying the party," or you can look beyond Election 2008 and say that, maybe 30% of Democrats wouldn't want a black man in office.
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I don't see how speculating that 30% of Democrats (especially voting democrats) are racists is rooted in any sort of fact, nor do I see how it's necessarily "looking beyond Election 2008" (perhaps you can enlighten me?).
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Not saying anything is 100% happening, just giving an alternative view to the people in the back that think "OMG@#@#$ Hillary is ruining the party!!!!" Uh no, this is the United States Of America, and we haven't been united since 1776. |
But the argument you're giving for why she isn't does not speak at all to the issues being raised by the majority of people (especially here) saying that Clinton remaining in the campaign is hurting the party.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eco
Next time I'll be sure to pull out numbers from the Gallup polls as to how many people in this country don't like black people, to support my claims. Look, I'm voting for him, and ideally, I would love to say 100% of Hillary voters are voting for him too. But, that's not happening, and don't entirely blame Hillary for that. |
When you make matter of fact statements like the bolded one above, you better have something to back it up otherwise it just seems like nonsensical ranting.
If that's what you think is going to happen, that's all fine and well - but that doesn't mean it will be the case.
Edit: Also, regarding gallup polls:
| quote: |
Results are based on telephone interviews with 6,657 national Democratic voters, aged 18 and older, conducted March 7-22, 2008. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±2 percentage points.
Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones (for respondents with a land-line telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell-phone only).
In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls. |
Grain of salt, etc. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by nchs09
Who are you? Obviously not Lira because Lira would never want Asians to be blended into the same color as everyone else. Lira loves Asians as much as Yan. |
:stongue:
How can I be against it, I'm even making a contribution :D |
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| RJT |
So Russert is claiming Hilary canceled a bunch of morning show appearances, but the Clinton camp was claiming she was never booked.
She also just loaned herself another 6 million.
There is absolutely no good that can come out of this continued exercise in futility, regardless of why anyone thinks it's taking place. She's done, and at this point she really is the only thing left that is hurting the party.
It's not Obama's skin color, it's not Reverend Wright, it isn't Rezko, nor is it the Weather Undergound - no measure of any of those issues is going to bring Hilary the nomination. Her only stake in continuing to run seems to be to torpedo the Obama campaign, unless someone else can provide me a reason I'm just not seeing now. |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
So Russert is claiming Hilary canceled a bunch of morning show appearances, but the Clinton camp was claiming she was never booked.
She also just loaned herself another 6 million.
There is absolutely no good that can come out of this continued exercise in futility, regardless of why anyone thinks it's taking place. She's done, and at this point she really is the only thing left that is hurting the party.
It's not Obama's skin color, it's not Reverend Wright, it isn't Rezko, nor is it the Weather Undergound - no measure of any of those issues is going to bring Hilary the nomination. Her only stake in continuing to run seems to be to torpedo the Obama campaign, unless someone else can provide me a reason I'm just not seeing now. |
she's bat insane and genuinely thinks she can win? |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Az
she's bat insane |
Fixed |
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| Lira |
Maybe, just maybe, Hillary is neither crazy nor thinks she can win. Maybe I'm just a foreigner that is giving her the benefit of doubt due to my inexperience but, maybe, just maybe she does know she can't win. However, even if that's true, retreating is not the only choice. Maybe she wants to be seen as "the woman that stands strong in spite of all adversities", and is looking forward to a future election. Then, she will be able to claim that she didn't leave Bill Clinton when his love affairs came to public light, that she didn't give up her hopes in this presidential race, and that... well, God knows what her stubbordness will lead to in the future.
What do you guys think? |
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