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Obama, for the win. (pg. 19)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Lord knows Sweden is actually in shambles right now because of such systems of "taxation" - such a poor state things are in over there, I almost understand why they are crying out for the sweet embrace of such level-headed, libertarian policy.
:gsmile: |
Actually, it's mostly just the richest part of the population complaining that they have to pay more than anyone else.
:o |
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| Protege |
| omg what is the big ing deal about obama using a part of someone else's speech. hilary is making it seem like he stole babies from china or something. |
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| robstar |
| quote: | | What the hell, Robstar? We foreigners should support Kucinich! Ask Stren! |
Haha no way! :D Even tho he makes some points he's still a socialist that's for big goverment.
Government fails miserably at everything it does, in a free marketplace it wouldn't even have a chance to compete with it's so called services.
Government is slow, incompetent and at worst corrupt!
| quote: | | Sweden's centralized government provides a tremendous amount of services to the general population, which is viewed by most as a huge reason as to why there is virtually no poverty there. |
Yes and it provides those services at the tip of a gun.
Services that once again could be better run in a free market where government can't create monopolys by laws to avoid competition.
We "pay" around 60% of tax here in Sweden and for what?
Government biased schools that are regulated to death?
Government healthcare? It's sucks, its slow and there's not a alot of room to innovate. Government steals your money then provides services that are waaaay under par.
Government never does things for you (we the people) it only does for it self!
| quote: | | I've just not really encountered to many "true believers" (read: people in denial) this election season, to get one all the way from Sweden was a bit surprising. |
In denail of what? Freedom and Liberty?
Yes a libetarian from Sweden, I can see how you are suprised.
Like most of us being brought up and taught that the government wellfare state is good and a necasary thing doesn't have that effect on people. I was watching swedish television yesterday where the host basicly praised Cuba and Fidel Castro. Absolutely disgusting!
I'm forced to pay for that to be shown!
| quote: | | Actually, it's mostly just the richest part of the population complaining that they have to pay more than anyone else. |
Yeah because poor people like to pay taxes? No that doesn't make sense!
But it's true that the more wealthy people, the so called middle class and up have to pay more taxes. If your salary happens to be higher then "the norm" you are taxed much harder.
A Man Chooses, A Slave Obeys!
Yes, I just quoted a videogame! :D
I found a video yesterday that's pretty funny actually but
Obama suporters as yourself will surely enjoy it more then I did,
"Transparency" Hillary Clinton by Timothy Cooper
http://www.vimeo.com/712320 |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by robstar
Government never does things for you (we the people) it only does for it self! |
yes! because a government is a sentient being with a hive-mind designed for self-preservation! |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| Scandinavian countries have free universal education through grad school... as someone who is sucking down student loans right now just to get by... stop complaining. |
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| robstar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Scandinavian countries have free universal education through grad school... as someone who is sucking down student loans right now just to get by... stop complaining. |
NOTHING is free in this world, everything has a price!
Our education isn't free! It might give the illusion of being free, the price you pay for that is poor inefficient education that could be so much better if you could choose.
Now, ask anyone at university level from my country if that's free. There's such a thing as student loans here too. :o It often leaves people with huge debt that take years and years to pay off as you probably know.
Free universal education = Forced low grade education where the government sets the rules and spreads it's propaganda. It forces everyone to learn the same things regardless of interest, talents, backround and beliefs.
I would turn that down at a heartbeat, if I only was given the choice... |
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| RJT |
Ah, I get it now. This fellow is unhappy with his own government and so he's deciding to provide the "equal and opposite" reaction, albeit a vastly misinformed "equal and opposite."
At the end of the day, robstar, you're right - Ron Paul's voting record does indeed speak for itself, and it speaks to both his hypocrisy and craziness. Your own arguments in favor of Paul's Libertarian policies amount to little more than you making unsubstantiated claims about your own government, and the services and education they provide you.
Let me explain something very clearly to you: Opinion is not fact.
I realize you are unhappy for whatever reason with your country and your government, but unfortunately that unhappiness and your complaining about the supposed substandard education your government don't prove anything to anyone. All you've managed to spout out in this thread is something called propaganda - and no one is buying it for a minute.
I do, however, remember you saying something about "not caring" about any of this, which continues to prove more and more funny the harder and harder you try, so that's nice.
:) |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by robstar
NOTHING is free in this world, everything has a price!
Our education isn't free! It might give the illusion of being free, the price you pay for that is poor inefficient education that could be so much better if you could choose.
Now, ask anyone at university level from my country if that's free. There's such a thing as student loans here too. :o It often leaves people with huge debt that take years and years to pay off as you probably know.
Free universal education = Forced low grade education where the government sets the rules and spreads it's propaganda. It forces everyone to learn the same things regardless of interest, talents, backround and beliefs.
I would turn that down at a heartbeat, if I only was given the choice... |
That's quite simply not true. I studied for a semester in Denmark, and am pretty familiar with the Scandinavian system. There's a tremendous incentive for students to pursue higher education, and unlike in the US there is no financial bar to who can study and who is unable to. The fact of the matter is that 100% of Swedes have the option of attending school all the way through grad school, whereas the majority of Americans still bear significant financial burden just to go to community college. In addition, correct me if I'm wrong, but the state subsidizes going to university in other countries, yes? If the Swedish system is so broken, you have every option of attending school elsewhere on the state's dime. That's a pretty cool system in my opinion - universal access to higher education is something we can only dream of in this country so long as there are greedy rich people suspicious of national welfare.
And furthermore, Sweden pays higher taxes than we do in the US, true... but are you suffering for that? Wages are higher in Sweden than almost anywhere in the world, standard of living is among the highest, and the quality of education and healthcare (despite your claim) is better in most cases than even here in the US. Sweden is on the forefront of developing new medical technology, showing that innovation is alive and well, and some of your universities (I'm thinking particularly of Uppsala in my particular field) are among the leaders of international academics in a variety of different fields from political science, conflict resolution, international development, engineering, medicine, etc.
In fact, I wish the US system looked a whole lot more like the Swedish one than it does. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
I realize you are unhappy for whatever reason with your country and your government, but unfortunately that unhappiness and your complaining about the supposed substandard education your government don't prove anything to anyone. |
The absolute only way this guy is from Sweden and believes what he is saying is if his family is absurdly rich and would have no problem paying for education and huge medical expenses on his own.
As part of my study abroad, we had to do a field study involving the Danish opinion on taxes, and one of the questions we asked was "if given the choice, would you choose to raise taxes or lower them?" the overwhelming response (80% plus) was "raise taxes to increase social services" - the other 20% was spread between "no change" or "lower taxes to increase individual responsibility". |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
The absolute only way this guy is from Sweden and believes what he is saying is if his family is absurdly rich and would have no problem paying for education and huge medical expenses on his own.
As part of my study abroad, we had to do a field study involving the Danish opinion on taxes, and one of the questions we asked was "if given the choice, would you choose to raise taxes or lower them?" the overwhelming response (80% plus) was "raise taxes to increase social services" - the other 20% was spread between "no change" or "lower taxes to increase individual responsibility". |
Indeed, in basically every sociology course I've taken Scandinavian countries have been given as pinnacle examples of expanded government works really being able to increase the standard of living for the majority of citizens.
I guess I just don't understand the rationale of someone who clearly has no interest what-so-ever in our political process (and "doesn't care") spouting off a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense about one of the candidates in said race. :p |
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| Ang ' ela_ie |
| I have a couple minutes before I have to go back to work but I just wanted to laugh about the fact that the audience boo'ed Clinton last night. How awesome is that? I dont think anything says "you lost this debate" quite like a solid boo on national television from thousands of people in the state youre about to have a primary in. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ang ' ela_ie
I have a couple minutes before I have to go back to work but I just wanted to laugh about the fact that the audience boo'ed Clinton last night. How awesome is that? I dont think anything says "you lost this debate" quite like a solid boo on national television from thousands of people in the state youre about to have a primary in. |
I also found it funny that she made the Xerox comment about Obama and within minutes of the debate being over the internet kids had all sorts of videos, text, and audio of John Edwards saying verbatim much of her closing statement.
She really does seem to be self destructing rather methodically, let's hope the trend continues.  |
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