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Obama, for the win. (pg. 37)
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by chadi
Well, I'm from wisconsin and I don't want obama to win. I'm not a fan of either of them, but I just don't think obama would be able to have the kind of international image necessary for the job. Obama would be great at another time, but right now we kinda need a bitch like hillary to get things back together.
Obama just has a bunch of charisma with no track record, nobody has any clue what he's going to do when he gets in office, at least you know what hillary is going to do -- it's gonna be Bill Clinton all over again.
When Obama talks, he just sounds too big for his britches, like he's trying so hard to sound like he knows what to do while obviously being a noob. |
What does any of that even mean? No track record? As opposed to Hilary's experience in glad-handing foreign leaders? I really tire of all this nonsense of people saying Hilary is so much more experienced than Obama.
| quote: |
WASHINGTON - Surrounded by military leaders in a Cabinet-style setting, Hillary Clinton on Thursday said she has "crossed the threshold" of foreign policy experience to serve as commander in chief.
Supporters of rival Barack Obama fired back immediately, arguing that the former first lady's trips abroad hardly constituted a practice run for managing global crises.
"She was never asked to do the heavy lifting" when meeting with foreign leaders, said Susan Rice, who was an assistant secretary of state in the Clinton administration and is now advising Obama. "She wasn't asked to move the mountain or deliver a harsh message or a veiled threat. It was all gentle prodding or constructive reinforcement. And it would not have been appropriate for her to do the heavy lifting."
The debate over readiness for the global arena is emerging as the flash point in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, crystallized by a dramatic Clinton campaign commercial asking who is best prepared to answer a 3 a.m. phone call to the White House during a crisis.
Clinton says she is the answer, arguing that Obama's major achievement was his early opposition to the Iraq war in 2002. Indeed, Obama doesn't have much in the way of experience managing foreign crises, nor does Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, for that matter. In fact, it is rare for any president to have that kind of experience before coming into office.
In Clinton's case, she may well have exercised influence on foreign policy that is hard to document because she had a unique opportunity to offer private counsel to her husband, President Bill Clinton.
But while Hillary Clinton represented the U.S. on the world stage at important moments while she was first lady, there is scant evidence that she played a pivotal role in major foreign policy decisions or in managing global crises.
Pressed in a CNN interview this week for specific examples of foreign policy experience that has prepared her for an international crisis, Clinton claimed that she "helped to bring peace" to Northern Ireland and negotiated with Macedonia to open up its border to refugees from Kosovo. She also cited "standing up" to the Chinese government on women's rights and a one-day visit she made to Bosnia following the Dayton peace accords.
Earlier in the campaign, she and her husband claimed that she had advocated on behalf of a U.S. military intervention in Rwanda to stop the genocide there.
'Ancillary' to process
But her involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process was primarily to encourage activism among women's groups there, a contribution that the lead U.S. negotiator described as "helpful" but that an Irish historian who has written extensively about the conflict dismissed as "ancillary" to the peace process.
The Macedonian government opened its border to refugees the day before Clinton arrived to meet with government leaders. And her mission to Bosnia was a one-day visit in which she was accompanied by performers Sheryl Crow and Sinbad, as well as her daughter, Chelsea, according to the commanding general who hosted her.
Whatever her private conversations with the president may have been, key foreign policy officials say that a U.S. military intervention in Rwanda was never considered in the Clinton administration's policy deliberations. Despite lengthy memoirs by both Clintons and former Secretary of State and UN Ambassador Madeleine Albright, any advice she gave on Rwanda had not been mentioned until her presidential campaign.
"In my review of the records, I didn't find anything to suggest that military intervention was put on the table in NSC [National Security Council] deliberations," said Gail Smith, a Clinton NSC official who did a review for the White House of the administration's handling of the Rwandan genocide. Smith is an Obama supporter.
Prudence Bushnell, a retired State Department official who handled the Rwanda portfolio at the time and has not allied with a presidential candidate, confirmed that a U.S. military intervention was not considered in policy deliberations, as did several senior Clinton administration officials with first-hand knowledge who declined to be identified.
Clinton has previously described her role in the Northern Ireland peace process as meeting with women's groups to encourage them to build a political climate for peace.
Former Sen. George Mitchell, who was the lead U.S. negotiator, said Clinton's visits were "very helpful."
"She was especially involved in encouraging women to get involved in the peace process," which was a "significant factor" in the agreement, Mitchell said in an interview.
But Tim Pat Coogan, an Irish historian who has written extensively on the conflict in Northern Ireland, said the first lady's visits were not decisive in the negotiating breakthroughs in Northern Ireland.
"It was a nice thing to see her there, with the women's groups. It helped, I suppose," Coogan said. "But it was ancillary to the main thing. It was part of the stage effects, the optics.
"There were all kinds of peace movements, women's movements throughout the 'Troubles.' But it was more about the clout of Bill Clinton," added Coogan, who said Clinton administration decisions to grant visas to leaders of the Irish Republican Army's political wing and appoint a U.S. negotiator were the keys to changing the political climate.
Beijing speech
One of Clinton's most noteworthy forays onto the foreign stage came in 1995, when she delivered a speech at the United Nations' women's conference in Beijing. That speech was widely noted and hailed as a bold call for women's rights, especially because Clinton explicitly spoke out against forced abortion and other practices of the host country.
"In the years since, I have met many women from many places who tell me they were at Beijing, or had friends who were, or who were inspired by the conference to launch initiatives," Albright wrote in her 2003 memoir.
The speech might never have happened if the first lady had not pressed for it, said one former Clinton administration official sympathetic to her candidacy who traveled with her and Albright to Beijing. The administration was conflicted about whether Hillary Clinton should go to Beijing at all because of the regime's record on human rights.
"Yet she was determined to go and was convinced that her going would send a very strong signal of support for human rights," said the official, who spoke on the condition that he not be named. "Everyone at the end of the process almost certainly would have said, 'How could we be so foolish to question the wisdom of the trip?'"
Still, Rice questioned whether that trip amounted to the kind of preparation for a global crisis that Clinton has claimed.
"How does going to Beijing and giving a speech show crisis management? There was no crisis. And there was nothing to manage," Rice said.
Macedonia visit
In 1999, Clinton visited Albanian refugee camps in Macedonia during the NATO bombing campaign to force Slobodan Milosevic's troops out of Kosovo. Macedonia had sealed its borders in an attempt to stop the arrival of refugees but, under Western pressure, reopened them the day before Clinton visited the camps.
A former Clinton administration official sympathetic to her candidacy said her presence "played a very important role in helping to shore up support for the Kosovars."
But Ivo Daalder, a former Clinton NSC official with responsibility for the Balkans and author of a history of the Kosovo conflict, said the border opening had nothing to do with her negotiating skills.
"It was her coming that helped. But she had absolutely no role in the dirty work of negotiations," said Daalder, an Obama supporter. "This had nothing to do with her competence." |
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-experiencemar07,0,2390719.story?page=2
And what is this "too big for his britches" talk? Why is it we need a bitch? What other countries and whom in the international realm is it that really likes Hilary and doesn't care for Obama?
I really, really get tired of hearing people's opinions that are clearly based on absolutely nothing substantial, but are rather just a bunch of idiotic claims made with absolutely nothing to back them up.
And saying Hilary is going to be like Bill Clinton all over again is the most laughable claim I have ever heard. |
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| iammesol |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
hrad. |
I lol'd pretty hard at that one. :p |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by iammesol
I lol'd pretty hard at that one. :p |
What?
:conf: |
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| iammesol |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
What?
:conf: |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
heardd. |
:stongue: |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by iammesol
:stongue: |
What the are you on about this morning Sam?
:conf: |
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| iammesol |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
What the are you on this morning Sam?
:conf: |
I'm on cereal, and lots of it  |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
What does any of that even mean? No track record? As opposed to Hilary's experience in glad-handing foreign leaders? I really tire of all this nonsense of people saying Hilary is so much more experienced than Obama.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...19.story?page=2
And what is this "too big for his britches" talk? Why is it we need a bitch? What other countries and whom in the international realm is it that really likes Hilary and doesn't care for Obama?
I really, really get tired of hearing people's opinions that are clearly based on absolutely nothing substantial, but are rather just a bunch of idiotic claims made with absolutely nothing to back them up.
And saying Hilary is going to be like Bill Clinton all over again is the most laughable claim I have ever heard. |
+1
Anybody who complains that they don't know what one of the candidates stands for at this point needs to step away from the CNN and do their homework.
Obama's foreign policy platform has been laid out time and time again.
The Susan Rice video I posted above is probably the most concise n00b-friendly video version. |
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| iammesol |
Okay... WOW. I just got this bulletin from one of my friends back home. God, I'm glad I moved out of the country. :nervous:
| quote: | Vote Obama?
OBAMA, THE ANTI-CHRIST, MAY GOD BLESS US ALL!!!
MAY WE ALL PRAY FOR WISDOM AND DISCERNMENT AND PRAY FOR EACH OTHER
AS WE MAKE THIS DECISION OF A LIFETIME! OUR LIVES, CHILDREN AND
GRANDCHILDREN'S LIVES WILL BE CHANGED FOREVER BECAUSE OF OUR CHOICE THIS
ELECTION. MAY GOD BE WITH US ALL!
Keep your eyes on the skies, Jesus is coming soon!!!
God help us if this man is elected!! But it is all stated
in the Bible and it will happen sooner or later.
This is from Darlene Millican, wife of the pastor
of Trinity Bapt. Church here in Sun City .
I have felt for sometime now that Obama is the
one person that 'Frightens Me'. I believe the Bible has
warned us that 'A man will come from the East that will be
charismatic in nature and have proposed solutions for all our
problems and his rhetoric will attract many supporters!'
When will our pathetic Nation quit turning their back on God and understand that
this man is 'A Muslim'....First, Last and always....and we are AT WAR with
the Muslim Nation, whether our bleeding-heart, secular,
Liberal friends believe it or not. This man fits every description from the Bible
of the 'Anti-Christ'!
I'm just glad to know that there are others that are frightened by this man!
Who is Barack Obama?
Very interesting and something that should be
considered in your choice.
If you do not ever forward anything else, please
forward this to all your contacts...this is very scary to
think of wh at lies ahead of us here in our own United
States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.
snopes. com..
....>' confirms this
is factual. Check for yourself.
Who is Barack Obama?
Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack
Hussein Obam a was born in Honolulu ,
Hawaii , to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM
from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from
Wichita , Kansas
Obama's parents met at the
University of Hawaii .
When Obama was two years old, his parents
divorced. His father returned to
Kenya . His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL
Muslim from Indonesia . When Obama was 6 years
old, the family relocate
to Indonesia . Obama attended
a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two
years in a Catholic school.
Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that
he is a Muslim . He is quick to point out that, 'He was once
a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school.'
Obama's political handlers are attempting to
make it appear that that he is not a radical.
Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was
temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to
Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his
son's education.
Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his
stepson to Islam. Obama
was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta .
Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists
who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically
expedie nt to be a CHRIS TIAN when seeking major
public office in the United States , Barack Hussein Obama has
joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay
his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was
sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.
Barack Hussein Obama will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any
reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, Obama
turns his back to the flag and slouches. Do you want someone like this as your PRESIDENT?
Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential candidacy.
The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what
better way to start than at the highest level - through the
President of the United States, one of their own! The
Bible says 'He will come from among you!'
Please forward to everyone you know.
Would you want this man leading our country?
NOT ME!!!
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
Another note: Oprah Winfrey is one of Obama's
biggest supporters and we all know about her 'new age' movement and her
declaration all the time that we are all god's and that goodness and
miracles are within us. We can do and be anything all on our own!!!
WITHOUT GOD, WE ARE NOTHING!!! |
Seriously... WHAT THE ?! :wtf: |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by iammesol
Okay... WOW. I just got this bulletin from one of my friends back home. God, I'm glad I moved out of the country. :nervous:
Seriously... WHAT THE ?! :wtf: |
Oh for "god's" sake.
If I could reach out to all the bible nutters I'd just kindly ask them not to vote in this election, as they've deemed all 3 candidates "not christian/conservative enough". |
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| enydo |
Oh wow, what the .
On a related note, religion + government = no. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
It always amuses me how many people get their political information from spam emails.
Obama has already written two memoirs where he was very explicit about his background... this stuff is pretty thoroughly discredited by now. |
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| RJT |
Yet another reason I absolutely love this fellow (c0r version is the bold part of the quotation):
| quote: |
COLUMBUS, Miss. - Democrat Barack Obama ridiculed the idea of being Hillary Rodham Clinton's running mate Monday, saying voters must choose between the two for the top spot on the fall ticket.
ADVERTISEMENT
The Illinois senator used his first public appearance of the week to knock down the notion that he might accept the party's vice presidential nomination. He noted that he has won more states, votes and delegates than Clinton so far.
"I don't know how somebody who is in second place is offering the vice presidency to the person who is first place," Obama said, drawing cheers and a long standing ovation from about 1,700 people in Columbus, Miss.
Saying he wanted to be "absolutely clear," he added: "I don't want anybody here thinking that somehow, 'Well, you know, maybe I can get both.' Don't think that way. You have to make a choice in this election."
"I am not running for vice president," Obama said. "I am running for president of the United States of America."
Obama aides said Clinton's recent hints that she might welcome him as her vice presidential candidate appeared meant to diminish him and to attract undecided voters in the remaining primary states by suggesting they can have a "dream ticket."
Obama had never suggested he might accept a second spot on the ticket. But until Monday he had not ridiculed the notion so directly, even if he did completely rule it out in Shermanesque terms.
He told the audience that it made no sense for Clinton to suggest he is not ready to be president and then hint that she might hand him the job that could make him president at a moment's notice.
"If I'm not ready, how is it that you think I should be such a great vice president?" he said, as the crowd laughed and cheered loudly.
Mississippi holds it primary Tuesday, the last contest before the Pennsylvania primary six weeks from now.
Clinton and her husband, the former president, had suggested recently that a Clinton-Obama ticket would be popular and formidable against Republican Sen. John McCain in November.
Many political activists discounted the notion all along. They noted that the two senators lack a warm relationship and, more important, that Obama would be ill-served by hinting he might accept the vice presidential slot when he holds the lead in delegates and hopes to win the presidential nomination.
In the latest Associated Press count, Obama leads Clinton, 1,578-1,472. He has won 28 contests to her 17.
Moreover, many insiders feel the ambitious and fast-rising Obama would chafe in the vice president's job, especially in a White House where Bill Clinton would almost surely play a huge advisory role.
Still, the notion of a Clinton-Obama ticket has received ample discussion in recent days on cable TV news shows and newspapers such as New York City's tabloids.
In an interview Friday in Wyoming with KTVQ-TV, a CBS affiliate based in Billings, Mont., Obama's comments were somewhat mixed.
"Well, you know, I think it's premature," he said of accepting the second spot on the ticket. "You won't see me as a vice presidential candidate."
His Monday remarks were more detailed, pointed and humorous.
Of course, they will not completely end the speculation. Presidential candidates routinely disavow any interest in the vice presidential spot. But some, including John Edwards and Al Gore, change their minds when they fall short of their top goal. |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310...j_Wgp_xml2s0NUE
Damn straight. 
You had to know it would come to this - if Hilary got the nod, she would all but need Obama as her VP, if Obama does, he can kick that bitch right to the curb and be done with it.
Lovely. :) |
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