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so did McCain just blow it? (pg. 215)
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Do I mock the federal courts? Uh, no. This lawsuit is a sad attempt to discredit Obama, if not on issues in a free and fair election, than by a lawsuit. This is a frivelous lawsuit filed by a political hack. OBAMA WAS BORN IN THE UNITED STATES. This frivelous lawsuit is obviously a political ploy. Who the hell is paying Phil Berg? Ahh, he hangs out with the likes of the Muslim hating Michael Savage...interesting...:o |
He's actually a disgruntled Hillary supporter. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by spacechica
hmm ok so does it mean that obama can be president even if he was born in kenya and his mother (a us citizen) was not over 19? |
My god you are so in racist.How do you live with yourself everyday honestly? Whats wrong from being from in Kenya? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by spacechica
anyways, when mccain becomes the next president of the usa, i will laugh and be merry, and it will be like the perfect period to end a quarter life meditation that i always wanted to write... that is so awesome i can't even begin to fathom how awesome it really is. |
McCain will not win this election. Mark my words. The Republican Party is in shambles, a shadow of its former 1994 "Contract with America" self. You may love Bush, but 70-80% of the country doesn't. McCain is done. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by verndogs
Uh...no. Have to be a natural born citizen in order to run. |
See, that's what I thought.
Can anyone clarify that a bit more? |
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
My god you are so in racist.How do you live with yourself everyday honestly? Whats wrong from being from in Kenya? |
Read back the last 2-3 pages and it's not about her being racist. More about this: http://www.obamacrimes.com/ |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by verndogs
Uh...no. Have to be a natural born citizen in order to run. |
or citizen of the USA for at least 14 years. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
See, that's what I thought.
Can anyone clarify that a bit more? |
It means being born on US territory. But that's not that only criteria. |
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| Spacey Orange |
| quote: | McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is Questioned
By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 2, 2008; A06
The Senate has unanimously declared John McCain a natural-born citizen, eligible to be president of the United States.
That is the good news for the presumptive Republican nominee, who was born nearly 72 years ago in a military hospital in the Panama Canal Zone, then under U.S. jurisdiction. The bad news is that the nonbinding Senate resolution passed Wednesday night is simply an opinion that has little bearing on an arcane constitutional debate that has preoccupied legal scholars for many weeks.
Article II of the Constitution states that "no person except a natural born citizen . . . shall be eligible to the office of president." The problem is that the Founding Fathers never defined exactly what they meant by "natural born citizen," and the matter has never been fully tested in court. At least three pending cases are challenging McCain's right to be sworn in as president.
Jurists on both sides of the political divide, consulted by the McCain campaign, insist that the issue is clear-cut. They argue that McCain is a natural-born citizen because the United States held sovereignty over the Panama Canal Zone at the time of his birth, on Aug. 29, 1936; because he was born on a U.S. military base; and because his parents were U.S. citizens.
But Sarah H. Duggin, an associate law professor at Catholic University who has studied the "natural born" issue in detail, said the question is "not so simple." While she said McCain would probably prevail in a determined legal challenge to his eligibility to be president, she added that the matter can be fully resolved only by a constitutional amendment or a Supreme Court decision.
"The Constitution is ambiguous," Duggin said. "The McCain side has some really good arguments, but ultimately there has never been any real resolution of this issue. Congress cannot legislatively change the meaning of the Constitution."
Senators sympathetic to McCain's position, including Democrats Claire McCaskill (Mo.) and Patrick J. Leahy (Vt.), dropped an earlier attempt to quell the eligibility controversy with legislation. McCaskill acknowledged in an interview that there is "no way" to completely resolve the question short of a constitutional amendment, a cumbersome process which could not be concluded before November.
She described the nonbinding resolution, which she sponsored, as "the quickest, clearest and most efficient" way for the Senate to send a message to the courts that McCain has the right to be president.
One person who disagrees with that premise is New Hampshire resident Fred Hollander, who has filed a suit in U.S. District Court claiming that the Republican candidate is "not a natural born citizen." In an attempt to prove his argument, the 49-year-old computer programmer filed a subpoena last month seeking McCain's birth certificate.
The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees citizenship services, declined to hand over copies of the document, saying the subpoena was improperly served.
In his autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers," McCain writes that he was born "in the Canal Zone" at the U.S. Naval Air Station in Coco Solo, which was under the command of his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. The senator's father, John S. McCain Jr., was an executive officer on a submarine, also based in Coco Solo. His mother, Roberta McCain, now 96, has vivid memories of lying in bed listening to raucous celebrations of her son's birth from the nearby officers' club.
The birth was announced two days later in the English-language Panamanian American newspaper. A senior official of the McCain campaign showed a reporter a copy of the senator's birth certificate issued by Canal Zone health authorities, recording his birth in the Coco Solo "family hospital."
Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the "Child Born Abroad" records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain.
Possible discrepancies in the bureaucratic paperwork are of little concern to Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor who looked into the case at the McCain campaign's request. Tribe examined the issue along with Theodore B. Olson, his onetime nemesis in the 2000 Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore.
Tribe said it would be "astonishing if the recordkeeping practices of Canal Zone [officials] could have any bearing on eligibility for the U.S. presidency."
The key constitutional issue is whether the Canal Zone was part of the United States at the time of McCain's birth. In a memorandum, Tribe and Olson cite a 1986 Supreme Court ruling stating that the United States "exercised sovereignty" over the 10-mile-wide area between 1904 and 1979, when it was handed back to the Panamanians. Hollander and others challenging McCain's eligibility argue that the zone was never part of the United States.
Duggin, the constitutional law scholar, said the sovereignty question is "more complex" than Olson and Tribe concede. People born in some U.S. territories, such as American Samoa, are not recognized as citizens of the United States.
According to a State Department manual, U.S. military installations abroad cannot be considered "part of the United States" and "A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth." Tribe said the manual is an "opinion" with no legal status.
There are few precedents for someone born outside the 50 states running for president, let alone becoming president. The best example the McCain camp has been able to come up with is Vice President Charles Curtis, who served under President Herbert Hoover and was born in the territory of Kansas in 1860, a year before it became a state. The 12th Amendment requires that vice presidents possess the same qualifications as presidents.
Several prominent politicians have run for the presidency without having been born in the United States, including Barry Goldwater, who was born in the territory of Arizona in 1909, three years before it became a state. Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, ran in 1968, even though he was born in Mexico. Since neither Goldwater nor Romney won the presidency, the "natural born" clause was never tested.
Duggin believes that Hollander and the other plaintiffs are likely to have a hard time establishing their own eligibility, or legal standing, to challenge McCain. She said it will be difficult for them to demonstrate that they have been "disenfranchised" because of the mere presence on the ballot of a candidate with debatable constitutional qualifications.
But she said the matter should be sorted out before the election, rather than afterward: "Imagine what would happen if the courts were to overturn an election simply based on eligibility. It would be a disaster. After what happened in 2000, people would completely lose faith in the electoral process."
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| quote: | | Article II. Clause 5. No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been Fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. |
;) |
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| verndogs |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
or citizen of the USA for at least 14 years. |
As I understand, that refers to natural born citizen candidate living in the US for at least 14 years. |
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| spacechica |
| wait, so what does the "at the time of the adoption of the constitution" really mean? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spacey Orange
;) |
I think it's time we filed a lawsuit contesting McCain's eligibility for president.
www.McCainCrimes.com
:o |
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