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G20 Happenings Thread... (pg. 41)
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| nacarter |
Just to clarify one point. Police have up to 72 HOURS to lay charges before they must release you.
I don't lump 'black bloc' anarchists in with protestors - they are two entirely different things; however, the vast majority of black bloc lunatics are well known to the various groups that they belong to. These groups want to legitimize their protests and their causes, then they have an obligation to root out black bloc anarchists. In Vancouver, black bloc was almost entirely ineffective because when they started , protestors surrounded them and wouldn't let them go anywhere. This created significant goodwill between protesters and the police.
Were there some issues of poor judgement in some of the arrests. Yes there were, and these should be investigated. It's all fine and good to yell about arrests on an online forum; however there is a proper venue and that is the various civilian commissions that exist to deal with police conduct complaints. Make yourself useful and go there.
On a related point, many protesters who claim they were arrested for 'doing nothing' need to think a little harder. When the riot cops tell you to move, they don't mean when you Goddamn well feel like it, they mean NOW. Disobedience of this command is grounds for Public Mischief or more seriously, Obstruction. Many of the arrests at the detention facility were because the protesters were interfering with undercover cops making legitimate arrests. If you don't like that your buddy is being arrested, do him a REAL favour and bail him out - don't try and rescue him, you'll just get locked up. |
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| Jayx1 |
Some people in this thread are supporting the kind of actions used routinely in places like China, Iran, and USSR. And im not exaggerating when i say this either!
If you support the violation of rights and freedoms especially because you dont agree with what the peaceful protesters were saying, then who will stand up for you when you happen to be doing or saying something that big brother doesnt like??
I personally dont agree with 99% of what those protesters were saying. And i believe that the black bloc idiots should have gotten a proper beatdown. (which they didnt and id like to know why not!!) But to forcibly confine, beat, arrest, and detain peaceful people who were doing nothing illegal is nothing short of totalitarian and very very wrong.
Arresting and beating JOURNALISTS is even worse! That is attacking the very basis of democracy!!!
AND SOME OF YOU ARE ABLE TO DEFEND THIS??? |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by nacarter
Just to clarify one point. Police have up to 72 HOURS to lay charges before they must release you.
I don't lump 'black bloc' anarchists in with protestors - they are two entirely different things; however, the vast majority of black bloc lunatics are well known to the various groups that they belong to. These groups want to legitimize their protests and their causes, then they have an obligation to root out black bloc anarchists. In Vancouver, black bloc was almost entirely ineffective because when they started , protestors surrounded them and wouldn't let them go anywhere. This created significant goodwill between protesters and the police.
Were there some issues of poor judgement in some of the arrests. Yes there were, and these should be investigated. It's all fine and good to yell about arrests on an online forum; however there is a proper venue and that is the various civilian commissions that exist to deal with police conduct complaints. Make yourself useful and go there.
On a related point, many protesters who claim they were arrested for 'doing nothing' need to think a little harder. When the riot cops tell you to move, they don't mean when you Goddamn well feel like it, they mean NOW. Disobedience of this command is grounds for Public Mischief or more seriously, Obstruction. Many of the arrests at the detention facility were because the protesters were interfering with undercover cops making legitimate arrests. If you don't like that your buddy is being arrested, do him a REAL favour and bail him out - don't try and rescue him, you'll just get locked up. |
I'd say this is reasonable. :)
I'd also say the more peaceful protesters probably didn't think to do what those in Vancouver did b/c TO's just not used to this kind of thing? Who knows... |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
All it takes is the peaceful protesters to begin chanting the Black Blocs out, and engaging them to stop. They're not going to yell back and punch the peaceful ones in the face.
It's sad the non-vilent protesters tolerated these s in their midst. They share some of the guilt by letting them do their . If a snotty kid next to me pokes a stick at a hornets nest, the bees will go after me too. |
Sure...too bad this didn't happen, still no excuse for the police to go crazy afterwards b/c they didn't take enough action earlier. |
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| Abercrombie |
That's kinda hypocritical from the organizers that explicitly refused to condone violence by protesters last week. |
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| Sly_Guy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
All it takes is the peaceful protesters to begin chanting the Black Blocs out, and engaging them to stop. They're not going to yell back and punch the peaceful ones in the face.
It's sad the non-vilent protesters tolerated these s in their midst. They share some of the guilt by letting them do their . If a snotty kid next to me pokes a stick at a hornets nest, the bees will go after me too. |
so, those unequipped and untrained are responsible for maintaining order of those intent on disrupting it? I don't see how that could end badly.
Worse, do you really think police are going to take the time and sort out who's responsible if they come across two guys fighting each other in the midst of a riot?
Hell, they don't even do that when it's not a riot, they just throw both of them in jail anyway. |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Endlesswave
Sure...too bad this didn't happen, still no excuse for the police to go crazy afterwards b/c they didn't take enough action earlier. |
Still no excuse for tolerating them. |
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| Skipper |
This post reminded me of when the zone got raided and everyone complained about how they were treated. (Not trying to say these concerns aren't legitimate, it's just an observation.)
Problem with both police and protesters is that there are bad eggs in both parties. Cops with a bias, a chip on their shoulder, can and do act in extreme ways especially when tormented, taunted, etc - and the herd mentality often follows. Police should keep their cool and treat people fairly, and protesters should stop breaking windows and lighting on fire....but there will always be a few that give their own side a bad rep.
Me personally, while I believe peaceful protesting is a democratic right we all share, you'd be naive to think there was no risk of being detained unfairly or inhumanely in a highly charged situation like the G20. It's not fair, it's not just, but that's reality and I would have to feel pretty damn strongly about something to put myself in the middle of the action. |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sly_Guy
so, those unequipped and untrained are responsible for maintaining order of those intent on disrupting it? I don't see how that could end badly.
Worse, do you really think police are going to take the time and sort out who's responsible if they come across two guys fighting each other in the midst of a riot?
Hell, they don't even do that when it's not a riot, they just throw both of them in jail anyway. |
Ah, yeah the peaceful protesters probably weren't trained, it's why the police just threw everyone in the same boat, easier that way but it's still crazy to do IMO, considering it infringes on the rights of a LOT of people... |
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| Tordan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Some people in this thread are supporting the kind of actions used routinely in places like China, Iran, and USSR. And im not exaggerating when i say this either!
If you support the violation of rights and freedoms especially because you dont agree with what the peaceful protesters were saying, then who will stand up for you when you happen to be doing or saying something that big brother doesnt like??
I personally dont agree with 99% of what those protesters were saying. And i believe that the black bloc idiots should have gotten a proper beatdown. (which they didnt and id like to know why not!!) But to forcibly confine, beat, arrest, and detain peaceful people who were doing nothing illegal is nothing short of totalitarian and very very wrong.
Arresting and beating JOURNALISTS is even worse! That is attacking the very basis of democracy!!!
AND SOME OF YOU ARE ABLE TO DEFEND THIS??? |
+1. I'm glad we can agree on something. :) |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Warmington: G20's Billion-dollar thug?
By JOE WARMINGTON,
Last Updated: June 28, 2010 11:19am
Natasha Borris, 18, describes being pulled off of public transit and taken to a makeshift G20 jail on Eastern Ave. Watch the video.
Play Video
So did we get our billion dollar’s worth?
Certainly Natasha Borris learned a billion-dollar lesson.
When the Whitby kid walked out of the jail compound she looked 14 and lost.
Turns out she is 18 but was still definitely was lost.
“It was so scary,” the Whitby teen said of her first 24 hours in jail. “I don’t know where I am and I don’t know where to go.”
There have been some incredibly memorable images during the G20 summit uprising including police looking like cousins of Darth Vadar battling young people disguised as Soviet-style communists.
The whole thing has been surreal.
But when Natasha was released from the Eastern Ave. Summit Stalag, spinning through the special turn style gate, one had to do a double take because with her diminutive stature it looked like a young kid being released from jail.
Some people snickered at the site of her -- making the comment that she hardly looked like a billion-dollar threat.
“I never even got to protest,” she said in an interview seconds after being released. “I was arrested on the Go Train Saturday about noon because I had a gas mask and a bandana which I told them were for my own protection.”
They were not buying it and took her in handcuffs to Eastern Ave., where she said she was placed in a cell, had to go to the bathroom with no door and was not given a phone call for 12 hours.
“It was chaos,” she said of the overnight environment on the inside. “People were rattling their cages and yelling and hollering.”
The University of Guelph student, who said they made her take off her bra and took the shoelaces out of her sneakers, said she can’t understand what she was doing in there when she has no criminal record and was merely looking forward to partaking in a “peaceful protest” in favour of her environmental concerns.
“I think it’s ridiculous,” she said. “I hadn’t done anything. I was still on the train.”
She was released without charge and was told to not go anywhere the protesters or she would end up back behind bars.
“I don’t want to go back in there,” she said, adding she did cry when they locked her cell.
It’s amazing that police could detain somebody like this when there were real suspects committing violence out there but having said that this is a time where there are a lot of decisions being made on the fly.
Anybody, journalists to law abiding protesters, could find themselves behind bars.
Plus to be fair I did see people that were young like Natasha breaking windows.
As for being involved in more protests for the G20.
Not a chance, says Natasha.
“I want to go home,” she said.
Her parents came in from Whitby to take her there. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Some people in this thread are supporting the kind of actions used routinely in places like China, Iran, and USSR. And im not exaggerating when i say this either!
If you support the violation of rights and freedoms especially because you dont agree with what the peaceful protesters were saying, then who will stand up for you when you happen to be doing or saying something that big brother doesnt like??
I personally dont agree with 99% of what those protesters were saying. And i believe that the black bloc idiots should have gotten a proper beatdown. (which they didnt and id like to know why not!!) But to forcibly confine, beat, arrest, and detain peaceful people who were doing nothing illegal is nothing short of totalitarian and very very wrong.
Arresting and beating JOURNALISTS is even worse! That is attacking the very basis of democracy!!!
AND SOME OF YOU ARE ABLE TO DEFEND THIS??? |
I agree with this completely. |
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