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G20 Happenings Thread... (pg. 61)
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| Tordan |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
and as a tax payer do you really want to pay for that....because you know that isn't going to be cheap. |
So it's ok to pay for a makeover for Tony Clement's riding, site of the G8?
It's ok to spend over a Billion on security for the G20.
But it's not ok to spend a few million to find out what happened? |
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| StereoPrincess |
lol. what? i don't see anything wrong with that. reading understanding is weak. why the would the province want to spend money to investigate? they should refuse. this is all on harper. G20 had nothing to do with the province. and no one is refusing right out, they are just saying that it should be the federal government that does it. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tordan
So it's ok to pay for a makeover for Tony Clement's riding, site of the G8?
It's ok to spend over a Billion on security for the G20.
But it's not ok to spend a few million to find out what happened? |
once again...I didn't say I was against an independent investigation into this.....people need to stop jumping to conclusions. I just don't want to hear people complain later on when we as the taxpayers have to pay for this. Will it be the citizens of Toronto, the citizens of Ontario or the citizens of Canada that will be forced to pay for this?
Personally, I think internal investigations need to be made at all levels of government about this. This needs to be a transparent investigation. If answers are not provided then we should have an independent source review the evidence and provide a report. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
lol. what? i don't see anything wrong with that. reading understanding is weak. why the would the province want to spend money to investigate? they should refuse. this is all on harper. G20 had nothing to do with the province. and no one is refusing right out, they are just saying that it should be the federal government that does it. |
tie that in with blairs comments and you get the picture!
passing the buck is not the way to govern! |
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| Abercrombie |
| The dozens of security cameras the police installed are going to be helpful in prosecuting those who deserve it, and vindicate the innocent. I'm pretty sure those cameras were watching the blocs every move, and watched them change out of their black clothes, and cherry-pick them out of the crowds, like it appears in many of the videos posted here. |
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| 1dawoman |
| quote: | Originally posted by smuncky
didn't u get the memo? harper can do no wrong. |
oh yeah....i forgot....
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tordan
I was at Queen's Park on Saturday evening when the riot police charged and I personally saw people being run over by horses. This was supposed to be the designated safe protest zone. In the two hours I was there not once did I hear or see any soft of warning/communication from the police.
On Sunday I was at Queen and Spadina in the pouring rain watching all those people be arrested and detained for hours. I saw teens balling their eyes out, young women wearing summer dresses and men old enough to be my dad, all waiting in line to be booked and then shoved into waiting paddy wagons. In the arrest line alone the ratio of people to police was 2:1. There was 100 or so more people being corralled by riot cops as I'm sure many of your saw on TV.
I watched as the police did nothing about the black bloc. I watched while police grabbed the guy standing beside me and search his bag without barely uttering two words to him. I watched an older East Indian couple crying as the police stormed Queen's Park and kicked out everyone who was there peacefully. I will not soon forget their screams, "why are you doing this? why are you doing this?"
It's very easy to draw conclusions and speculate on an online forum after sitting at home watching main stream media. A completely different story when you're at ground-level and experience it for yourself. |
This.
Although I do get where the police were coming from as well, it's just they went about it wrong, 3 mos to plan this?? That's nothing.
Like Ben said they didn't even go after the real vandals and just blanket detained everyone or as many as they could all things considered. This is BS. |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
The dozens of security cameras the police installed are going to be helpful in prosecuting those who deserve it, and vindicate the innocent. I'm pretty sure those cameras were watching the blocs every move, and watched them change out of their black clothes, and cherry-pick them out of the crowds, like it appears in many of the videos posted here. |
Hopefully. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
A bunch of punks with banners? Your ignorance, belligerence and simpleton way of thinking never ceases to amaze me.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. |
And you do, right? :rolleyes:
Please get off your high hourse and enough with the condescending responces - who the hell you think you are to label others as simpletons?
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
Kind of like how the police @ Queen & Spadina requested that the protesters and innocent stander-bys disperse even though they were boxed in by riot police? |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
were you there? |
Thank you.
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
and this is exactly why i think your views are biased. but that's ok. do what you need to do.
i would like to see everyone, and how their tune would change if people died in a bombing or died when a moltov cocktail was deployed into the crowd.
i strongly believe that there will be an investigation into what transpired and maybe we can all see both sides of the story. |
Excellent post (yay we agree again!)
It amazes me that except Halcyon and myself, noone else seemed to have been there during the weekend, yet are quick to jump on all sorts of bandwagons, insulting the intelligence of others involved in the debate because our point of view is the polar opposite. I mean, were you even there, or are you just paraphrasing the anger of those who were there, just because you know someone? I was there the entire Saturday evening, and I'm not pulling facts out of my ass - if others prefer to sit in the comfort of their own home and cry about heavily edited youtube videos, that doesn't downgrade my view. |
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| hardcore trancer |
Great article from The Toronto Star.
| quote: |
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tor...ge?bn=1#article
As crews dismantle the massive security fence from the G20 summit, questions are piling up about a secret cabinet decision giving police immense power to search and arrest anyone within five metres of the barrier.
Legal experts say a regulation authorizing the searches could be vulnerable to attack not just for potentially violating Charter protections against unreasonable search and seizure.
It could also be challenged on the grounds the public was not given adequate notice of the sweeping changes that required them to identify themselves to police officers or agree to be searched.
“I think it’s beyond question it is a major intrusion into what is ordinarily thought to be a fairly basic right to move around the city without having to justify your presence or submit to a search,” said Jonathan Dawe, a Toronto lawyer who has argued before the Supreme Court of Canada on the scope of police search powers.
Dave Vasey, a York University student who was arrested and jailed last Thursday for refusing to produce identification outside the fence, plans a Charter challenge to the provincial cabinet’s decision to quietly pass a regulation under the Public Works Protection Act that extended police powers.
The constitutionality of the legislation was upheld in a 2005 decision by the Ontario Court of Appeal.
But at that time, the court was only looking at whether police have the right to search someone entering a courthouse.
Insisting a citizen walk through a metal detector at a court building is a far cry from authorizing police to stop and search people on a sidewalk, demanding they produce identification or risk being thrown in jail, Dawe suggested Monday.
“There is something quite different about the idea of cordoning off an entire section of a city and declaring it to be off limits,” he said.
A key issue in any challenge to the regulation under the Charter’s search provisions would be whether the public could reasonably expect to walk through the downtown core within five metres of the fence without being stopped and asked for identification or to submit to a search.
One way of measuring that is to consider how surprised everyone was to find out about the regulation after Vasey’s arrest made the news last Friday, said Dawe.
Known as “Ontario regulation 233/10,” it was simply posted on a government web page known as “e-laws” without any public debate.
This Saturday — six days after the end of the summit — is when the public was to have found out about the regulation, when it gets published in the July 3 edition of the Ontario Gazette.
For something that had “such a dramatic impact on our civil liberties, it’s something that should not have occurred without a public announcement and a public debate to ensure the government is acting in a reasonable and measured way,” said Bruce Ryder, director of the Centre for Public Law and Public Policy at Osgoode Hall Law School.
Ryder said he’s surprised the province hadn’t learned, as did the federal government, from the fallout over the War Measures Act, invoked by former prime minister Pierre Trudeau’s cabinet in 1970 in response to the FLQ crisis in Quebec.
The War Measures Act was subsequently repealed and replaced by new federal emergency powers legislation, designed to deal with situations such as the recent summit, Ryder noted.
But the legislation requires a public debate in Parliament within seven days of the powers being proclaimed in force, along with a vote to confirm that the use of emergency powers is necessary, he said.
“That would have been the appropriate way to proceed in this case, when the government decided to invoke this (Public Works Protection) Act in an unprecedented way.”
Adam Dodek, a former senior policy adviser to Ontario’s attorney general and now a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said that in the usual course, it is rare for regulations to be publicized before being passed by cabinet.
The standard procedure is to publish them two weeks later.
But while that system “makes sense for . . . the 20th century,” Dodek said the public should be provided with better advance notice of proposed legislation, with an opportunity to submit online comments, following the lead of U.S. jurisdictions.
Dawe said in considering whether the new regulation was justified, much will turn on what alternatives were available to police.
If police have reasonable grounds to believe someone is about to commit a crime, the Criminal Code already gives them the power to make an “anticipatory” arrest.
Another potential avenue of legal challenge is to question whether Toronto’s streets and sidewalks could even be defined as “public works” under the legislation, and therefore places where people could be stopped and searched, Ryder said. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
And you do, right? :rolleyes:
Please get off your high hourse and enough with the condescending responces - who the hell you think you are to label others as simpletons?
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The only things I will add to this discussion are these:
1. I am sorry for what I said to you Kris. Although I think what you said in the last post I quoted you in is wrong, and it offended me, I shouldn't have replied in this way. Please check your FB PMs.
2. I was downtown for most of the weekend. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
The only things I will add to this discussion are these:
1. I am sorry for what I said to you Kris. Although I think what you said in the last post I quoted you in is wrong, and it offended me, I shouldn't have replied in this way. Please check your FB PMs.
2. I was downtown for most of the weekend. |
I do not have FB access at work, so you might want to copy it to PMs here
and fair enough - I didn't actually see if you mentioned it anywhere that you were in fact, chcking G20 in person
otherwise, I suggest we just agree to disagree this time around |
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