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Headfones (pg. 27)
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View this Thread in Original format
| bachatu |
Okay, one final note... Ive got some changed opinions based on my experience of using the 700DJ and 7506.
The 7506 is great sounding, but at high volumes, it cant get annoying, cause the highs are very high and bright,,, so it can hurt your ears easily (my ears at least)...
In addition, the bass in the 700 is easier to detect at high volumes. And when mixing, you are not listening to the quality of the bass, but mainly the bass drum... at least me..
Still, the 7506 is much better studio headphone than the 700dj, as the sound is accurate, but like I mentioned, Ive hurt my ears when playing them loud for long periods of time... Not sure if its the pads that add to the discomfort or what. The pads are kind of cheapy pads that look they will wear out easily.
So as far as 7506vs700DJ
For in comparison on those two:
for djing: 700DJ
for listening (at moderate levels) and studio work, monitoring ,etc:
MDR7506
My only concern about the 700DJ is the plastic on the hinges that tends to crack. |
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| Gluegun |
| The 7506 intentionally has bright highs, to prevent the recording mistake/cardinal sin of making the highs too bright when you are recording... now, the HD280 and the DT250-80 and the HFI-650 are not designed that way... maybe those would be more suited to you?? Or heck, what about more DJ-ish headphones like the HD25's, or one of the "Live V700DJ but comfy and durable" headphones from IXOS or Technics?? |
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| bachatu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gluegun
The 7506 intentionally has bright highs, to prevent the recording mistake/cardinal sin of making the highs too bright when you are recording... now, the HD280 and the DT250-80 and the HFI-650 are not designed that way... maybe those would be more suited to you?? Or heck, what about more DJ-ish headphones like the HD25's, or one of the "Live V700DJ but comfy and durable" headphones from IXOS or Technics?? |
I know exactly what you mean about the highs... damn, they are crisp and loud on the 7506, especially when loud.... thats something to cause hearing loss. I'll continue using the 700dj until the actual cup falls through the crack (hopefully not during a set)for djing...
I really got the 7506 for producing headphone,,, which i believe will be fine. They are actually pretty good, cause they have the same type of sound as my monitor speakers, the flatness is good. Obviously, that is what we are looking for when producing, a natural, precise, accurate sound. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gluegun
Michael, do you want it to block out outside noise, or not? I would suggest not, but if you need it to...
What is your price range, in USD, before budgeting stuff for shipping and taxes and such? Like, for the headphones *themselves*? What about for everything total, after shipping? You are in Canada, right?
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Yup, I'm in Canada.
I want something small... so if these headphones are going to block outside noise they're going to have to be the standard headphone size, and I might as well use the 280's I'm going to be getting at the end of the month. Is my reasoning correct, or no?
Blocking outside sound would be nice because the subway is noisy in certain areas, but I'd be willing to sacrifice that for portability.
What headphones are small and sound good? I'd like something that clips on your ears or goes around the back of your head. Price isn't really an issue because I can't imagine something like that going for too too much. Plus I'm willing to pay if they're good anyways.
Thanks again :) |
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| Alccode |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gluegun
Anyway, like I said, teh V700DJ's have more *physically impacting* bass than the MDR-7506's or MDR-V6's...and they don't have as much in the highs, either... so if you have lost some hearing, and need, for some reason, to use the sense of TOUCH more than your sense of HEARING, than a headphone like the V700DJ's (such as those by Technics or IXOS, but still not the V700...) might be worth it. However, if you are of the mental ability to use your EARS to beat match (and you might have to retrain your ears), you should be able to use a higher quality, tighter-sounding headphone to get quicker matching. After all, if you can hear the differences in SOUND between the two beats, and the beats aren't stretched out into boominess, you will be more accurate...
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:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
attention aspiring dj's!! pay attention and read this!
this is a very very good and important point above that you should all pay attention to!!! especially because it has subtler implications than what it just seems like (as betrayed by people like bachatu - "In addition, the bass in the 700 is easier to detect at high volumes. And when mixing, you are not listening to the quality of the bass, but mainly the bass drum... at least me.." - not trying to single you out, just providing an example).
the problem with using the v700's to beatmatch is that the bass they provide isn't accurate, it's weird-ass boomy midbass... similar to the echo effects of bass from large speakers (i'm not an expert in these matters so i apologize if my explanations seem as clear as mud! i have tried).
case in point: when getting that perfect beatmatch, you need to feel that bass-cancelling effect, that "oomph" that triggers in you that welling feeling of happiness - "I've beatmatched these suckers!!" - ok so that's being a bit romantic and overboard but you get my point. you will know it when you hear it, and i'm sure most other dj's know what i'm talking about here.
anyway, this is difficult to detect with the v700's because of their boominess.. you hear a big "BOOM" of a beat, but it's not exactly where the beat is supposed to begin.
when using something like the sennheiser hd-280 pro's, however, (i'm citing them for an example because i have - by now - "extensive" experience with them - you could also insert sony mdr-v6/7506 - they are functionally similar) you will hear exactly where the beat is and therefore you will be able to detect the beatmatch effect when it happens, and *quicker* (and more *accurate*!).
!!!!the reason why gluegun talks separately of beatmatching by TOUCH and by SOUND is because the two are completely different!!!!
addendum: of course, if you raise the volume of your v700's enough, you will be able to beatmatch just as well, but to the *costly* expense of your ears. PLUS it is much much more advantageous to get used to beatmatching and general cue listening on a LOWER volume. if you can beatmatch at lower volumes, not only will you (a) save your ears (a huuuge bonus!) but you will also (b) be that much better at beatmatching because you are capable of doing it with less aural information. but this means that it will generally be more difficult to hear the "beatmatch effect" of the bass-cancelling - so this means that you will have to rather beatmatch using highats, etc. but this opens up a new topic on beatmatching so i'll just stop there.
p.s. to verify all of this yourself (if you can't or didn't already) all you have to do is to return your cracked v700's to sony for repairs (they should be cracked by now anyway :toothless) and use something like the HD-280's for a month or so. first of all you'll immediately notice the improvement in beatmatching. second, when you get your v700's back it will seem much harder. i'll only explain it by drawing an analogy between dj'ing and running - whereas you got used to running in open air, trying to "run" with the v700's will feel like you're running through knee-deep water. sure, you can still run, but it's slow and laborious. by the way i am talking out of experience (only having received my v700's back from the repair shop a few days ago) so i'm not pulling this out of my ass or anything. :) |
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| bachatu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alccode
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
attention aspiring dj's!! pay attention and read this!
this is a very very good and important point above that you should all pay attention to!!! especially because it has subtler implications than what it just seems like (as betrayed by people like bachatu - "In addition, the bass in the 700 is easier to detect at high volumes. And when mixing, you are not listening to the quality of the bass, but mainly the bass drum... at least me.." - not trying to single you out, just providing an example).
the problem with using the v700's to beatmatch is that the bass they provide isn't accurate, it's weird-ass boomy midbass... similar to the echo effects of bass from large speakers (i'm not an expert in these matters so i apologize if my explanations seem as clear as mud! i have tried).
case in point: when getting that perfect beatmatch, you need to feel that bass-cancelling effect, that "oomph" that triggers in you that welling feeling of happiness - "I've beatmatched these suckers!!" - ok so that's being a bit romantic and overboard but you get my point. you will know it when you hear it, and i'm sure most other dj's know what i'm talking about here.
anyway, this is difficult to detect with the v700's because of their boominess.. you hear a big "BOOM" of a beat, but it's not exactly where the beat is supposed to begin.
when using something like the sennheiser hd-280 pro's, however, (i'm citing them for an example because i have - by now - "extensive" experience with them - you could also insert sony mdr-v6/7506 - they are functionally similar) you will hear exactly where the beat is and therefore you will be able to detect the beatmatch effect when it happens, and *quicker* (and more *accurate*!).
!!!!the reason why gluegun talks separately of beatmatching by TOUCH and by SOUND is because the two are completely different!!!!
addendum: of course, if you raise the volume of your v700's enough, you will be able to beatmatch just as well, but to the *costly* expense of your ears. PLUS it is much much more advantageous to get used to beatmatching and general cue listening on a LOWER volume. if you can beatmatch at lower volumes, not only will you (a) save your ears (a huuuge bonus!) but you will also (b) be that much better at beatmatching because you are capable of doing it with less aural information. but this means that it will generally be more difficult to hear the "beatmatch effect" of the bass-cancelling - so this means that you will have to rather beatmatch using highats, etc. but this opens up a new topic on beatmatching so i'll just stop there.
p.s. to verify all of this yourself (if you can't or didn't already) all you have to do is to return your cracked v700's to sony for repairs (they should be cracked by now anyway :toothless) and use something like the HD-280's for a month or so. first of all you'll immediately notice the improvement in beatmatching. second, when you get your v700's back it will seem much harder. i'll only explain it by drawing an analogy between dj'ing and running - whereas you got used to running in open air, trying to "run" with the v700's will feel like you're running through knee-deep water. sure, you can still run, but it's slow and laborious. by the way i am talking out of experience (only having received my v700's back from the repair shop a few days ago) so i'm not pulling this out of my ass or anything. :) |
I see your point, however, the boominess of the 700DJ does not extend that much, such as a 15' sub. I have used them for year and a half, and Ive never had problems beatmatching; in either loud or quite environments.
This shows you everyones opinions are different, just like techniques for beatmatching. I hold the ear piece a bit off the ear,,,, not pushed directly to my ear, to get a certain timing effect with my headphone and speakers. I have always done this,,, with both old Koss earphones the sonys. To me the beat sounds clear, and the bass does not extend to the effect that it clutters my senses of the beat.
Now, as far as the 7506... because of my technique of beatmatching.. having the headphone a bit away from my ear (slightly), i can hardly hear the drum beat (in comparison to the 700dj), so I have to turn up the juice, but then the highs interfere way to much, and that hurts the freakin ear drum
Anyhow, i guess everyone has their own point of view.
To me, mixing is just instinct... weather its with cheap ass earphones or good ones. You can always find a way and improvize to get a set of cans to work for you. My point is that with the 700DJ, its really easy, but that is my opinion. I can get the exact same type of mixing or beatmatching with 7506 or cheap kosstd80... is just that it may be more of a pain in the ass to work with them.
I believe everyone has their own style, everyone is shaped differently, etc. NOw, i really believe that there is no perfect all around headphone, cause one can may work better with your technique, while it may be horrible to another person's technique. |
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| Alccode |
| quote: | Originally posted by bachatu
the boominess of the 700DJ does not extend that much, such as a 15' sub. |
of course not.
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everyones opinions are different, just like techniques for beatmatching.
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good point!
| quote: |
Anyhow, i guess everyone has their own point of view.
To me, mixing is just instinct... weather its with cheap ass earphones or good ones. You can always find a way and improvize to get a set of cans to work for you. My point is that with the 700DJ, its really easy, but that is my opinion. I can get the exact same type of mixing or beatmatching with 7506 or cheap kosstd80... is just that it may be more of a pain in the ass to work with them.
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you're right - in the end the artist doesn't care what kind of pencil he uses because he can still draw (though, of course, he might *prefer* one type over another).
| quote: |
I believe everyone has their own style, everyone is shaped differently, etc. NOw, i really believe that there is no perfect all around headphone, cause one can may work better with your technique, while it may be horrible to another person's technique. |
i think this sums up this entire drawn-out thread just perfectly! :D |
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| Gluegun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Michael Russo
Yup, I'm in Canada.
I want something small... so if these headphones are going to block outside noise they're going to have to be the standard headphone size, and I might as well use the 280's I'm going to be getting at the end of the month. Is my reasoning correct, or no?
Blocking outside sound would be nice because the subway is noisy in certain areas, but I'd be willing to sacrifice that for portability.
What headphones are small and sound good? I'd like something that clips on your ears or goes around the back of your head. Price isn't really an issue because I can't imagine something like that going for too too much. Plus I'm willing to pay if they're good anyways.
Thanks again :) |
I suggest these...
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...ctID=0020130035
Those are the best 'small, portable, non-isolating, great for running' headphones out there, and that exact link is the only place to get them, cause they are discontinued...
There is also a less durable, behind-the-neck version that is still being produced, and is relatively easy to find:
http://headphone.com/layout.php?top...ctID=0020130055
Really, why don't you read this?
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...2&subTopicID=14
Also, what about some 'inside the ear canal closed earphones'?
These are what I am thinking about :
http://headphone.com/layout.php?top...ctID=0020100100
But Sony, Koss, and Optimus (same as Koss, but radio shack's version) make inexpensive headphones in the same style... all of which kinda suck, but are as moddable as a Civic... :) :) are you interested in those? Cause it'd take a while for me type up about them, but i will if you want. |
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| Michael Russo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gluegun
I suggest these...
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...ctID=0020130035
Those are the best 'small, portable, non-isolating, great for running' headphones out there, and that exact link is the only place to get them, cause they are discontinued...
There is also a less durable, behind-the-neck version that is still being produced, and is relatively easy to find:
http://headphone.com/layout.php?top...ctID=0020130055
Really, why don't you read this?
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php...2&subTopicID=14
Also, what about some 'inside the ear canal closed earphones'?
These are what I am thinking about :
http://headphone.com/layout.php?top...ctID=0020100100
But Sony, Koss, and Optimus (same as Koss, but radio shack's version) make inexpensive headphones in the same style... all of which kinda suck, but are as moddable as a Civic... :) :) are you interested in those? Cause it'd take a while for me type up about them, but i will if you want. |
Thanks a lot :)
That article you posted was nice, and I like those koss headphones. Etymotic stuff is great (I have their earplugs), but they're too expensive.
I have the Sony MDR-G52 headphones (they go around the neck)... but they sound really bad.... or "wretched" as headroom likes to describe them :) I didn't know that people modified headphones, but it sounds like an awesome project, and since I already have a shell it might be the best option. |
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| Gluegun |
Well, first of all!
*Sell the G52's*
Regardless, SELL THEM! And get some KSC-35's! And you can get some Sony MDR-EX70LP or Koss Plugs and mod them, too...
At Best buy, you will find the KSC-50 headphones, but also a version called, "The Plug"
http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.ns...le+Stereophones^THEPLUG
(copy and paste that if it doesn't work). But.. one thing you might not know, is that at Radio Shack, there is an Optimus version of the same thing that costs the same and comes with some extra eartip options... so getting that might be okay...
Here are some mods for "The Plug":
http://headwize.powerpill.org/proje...e=cmoy4_prj.htm
Also, there are the Sony MDR-EX70LP earphones. Check Shopping.yahoo.com for prices on these; they have a calculator for shipping there...
Here is a nice mod for them:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&threadid=11546 |
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| Michael Russo |
Lol... yeah the g52's are gonna go. :)
So you think I should go with the ksc-35s? What do you think of the sennheiser mx400's? |
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| Gluegun |
| What about the MX-400's plus some of those ear protection earcups? like, to keep out outside noises and such? Just have the MX-400's under em, and put the earcups on when you need isolation... |
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