Originally posted by LeopoldStotch
what was funny about the episode was richard(ricardo) was a spanish guy from the ivory coast in the 19th century. him riding a horse in the forest has got to be one of the funnier character subplots. this and hugo's whole "bad luck" after winning the lottery. :stongue:
Imo, I thought it was interesting it was 1867. Slavery importation was illegal then.
noikeee
I know where the Canaries are, I live 300 miles north of Tenerife, lol. I thought Ivory Coast referred to a country much further down in Africa, near the equator.
TranceGiant
The title of the series Finale has been revealed in the latest podcast; You will bricks. Many:
/SPOILER
The End
/SPOILER
Ahem....
NeoPhono
quote:
Originally posted by igottaknow
None of this good vs evil makes any sense. Jacob should be powerful enough to prevent evil from getting off the island. There's no need to bring mortals to "protect" the island, in fact it only has facilitated his escape. Where's the morality of making planes and ships crash on the island, killing innocent people so Jacob can search for the right candidate? Evil is an invention of man, keeping Evil on the island has done little stop man from doing evil things. I'm sure the producers are going to use the old stand by, the Armageddon scenario.
I don't mind a little supernatural spiritualism thrown in the mix but as soon as the show start down that big picture explanation path it ruined it for me. Whats next everyone is going to pick up a light saber and pontificating about the "force". The show has gone from people battling their inner demons and searching for redemption to a literal battle of demons. Which in my opinion is getting corny. Everyone wanted answers so now we're getting our answers sunday school style.
It seems to me that the island is a "proving ground." The people who were brought there all had some sort of good vs. evil thing going on, with a tendency towards evil, before they were brought to the island. It's not as if Jacob is bringing purely innocent people to the island. After they get there, it is a more of a philosophical thing, with Jacob trying to show that people are not inherently evil, even if their past proves otherwise, while the MIB is there to show that deep down, everyone is in fact evil.
I don't think the writers are trying to say that the world outside the island is free of evil, we've seen plenty of that via flashbacks. I think it's more of a yin-yang thing, where the island and Jacob are tying to keep a balance. Locke/MIB getting off the island would signify a shift towards the evil end of the spectrum.
I think that's the bottom line; yin-yang and the inherent good/evil that man is capable of.
kadomony
quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
Jacob trying to show that people are not inherently evil, even if their past proves otherwise, while the MIB is there to show that deep down, everyone is in fact evil.
yep. arriving on the island wipes the slate clean and then people are judged based on their actions on the island.
i was heavily reminded of "The Fountain" when Ricardo went on his whole quest thing and wound up becoming immortal.
:thepirate
igottaknow
quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
It's not as if Jacob is bringing purely innocent people to the island.
I wasn't saying the candidates were innocent, the people around them are. For example, when the original plane crashes other passengers who aren't candidates die as a result of the crash.
quote:
Jacob trying to show that people are not inherently evil, even if their past proves otherwise, while the MIB is there to show that deep down, everyone is in fact evil.
Trying to show to who? I think its obvious we are all capable of "evil" and have committed acts/thoughts in varying degrees. At any point we are equal capable of of acts of "good". But I don't find either a revelation that needs to be proved.
quote:
I don't think the writers are trying to say that the world outside the island is free of evil, we've seen plenty of that via flashbacks. I think it's more of a yin-yang thing, where the island and Jacob are tying to keep a balance. Locke/MIB getting off the island would signify a shift towards the evil end of the spectrum.
But if Jacob is so convinced that people aren't inherently evil then he should have nothing to fear if Flock escapes. He can prove he theory in the real world. Do you really believe there's an evil spirit that can make people do evil things?
LeopoldStotch
quote:
Originally posted by kadomony
i was heavily reminded of "The Fountain" when Ricardo went on his whole quest thing and wound up becoming immortal.
i was thinking the same thing. :stongue: the way ricardo(hugh jackman) was in search of trying to bring/see his wife(rachel weisz) back. great movie if anyone hasn't seen it yet.
woscar
ing hell, this was a fantastic episode!
NeoPhono
quote:
Originally posted by igottaknow
I wasn't saying the candidates were innocent, the people around them are. For example, when the original plane crashes other passengers who aren't candidates die as a result of the crash.
I'm not so sure, it seems that just about all of the survivors had something "evil" that they'd done prior to getting on the island. How do we know that we didn't have a whole plane (or ship, when it comes to Ricardo) of perviously evil-doing passengers?
quote:
Trying to show to who? I think its obvious we are all capable of "evil" and have committed acts/thoughts in varying degrees. At any point we are equal capable of of acts of "good". But I don't find either a revelation that needs to be proved.
I think they're trying to prove it to the person who has "sinned." I think they're going for the "redemption" angle now, and they're personifying that process. It's fairly obvious that all those on the island have been seen doing good and evil, but the question is; can you forgive yourself for doing evil in the past and not return to it?
quote:
But if Jacob is so convinced that people aren't inherently evil then he should have nothing to fear if Flock escapes. He can prove he theory in the real world. Do you really believe there's an evil spirit that can make people do evil things?
Well, this is a TV show and I've suspended my disbelief a long time ago...if I'm "OK" with a cloud monster, time travel, a miraculously healing island that kills fetuses, and talking to ghosts, I'm pretty ok with having two guys represent good and evil.
TranceGiant
Im still not sure I understood the priorities, though. Are Jacob's and MIB's sort of bet and Jacob's search for "candidates" (potential successors) two unrelated things? Was Oceanic 815 brought to the island just as part of this playground tradition or because of their potential candidacy or borth?
Fledz
quote:
Originally posted by igottaknow
I wasn't saying the candidates were innocent, the people around them are. For example, when the original plane crashes other passengers who aren't candidates die as a result of the crash.
Trying to show to who? I think its obvious we are all capable of "evil" and have committed acts/thoughts in varying degrees. At any point we are equal capable of of acts of "good". But I don't find either a revelation that needs to be proved.
But if Jacob is so convinced that people aren't inherently evil then he should have nothing to fear if Flock escapes. He can prove he theory in the real world. Do you really believe there's an evil spirit that can make people do evil things?
There is no such thing as an innocent person. According to Christian beliefs and I suspect most other religions, everybody is a sinner. Those people dying is a necessary evil to preserve the balance in the world.
I don't mind religious themes in stories, but it will me if it in the end links back to Christian theism. That would suck, much like Battlestar Galactica did.
If you're going to go for the religious angle then at least make something up, don't make me sit through 6 seasons only to find out that it was all some ty evangelical bull.
Sick show though and I'm glad I've stuck around and watched it from the start. Great episode and probably even better ones to come, such as the origin of their war.
