NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES
Public Hearing
Friday, May 23, 2003
Hart Senate Office Building
Room 216
Washington, DC
[i]......excerpt........
[[the following Cheney stand down order is confused for a shoot down order]]
MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
[excerpt] George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.
The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."
____________ BYU Physics Prof Finds Thermate in WTC Physical Samples http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml
and the cycle continues...:wtf:
{b.s.e.}
quote:
Originally posted by XaNaX
When the controllers finally picked up the jet heading to D.C. they asked NORAD to intercept and fighters were launched with shoot down orders however they arrived too late.
So maybe you should check again what the definition of a "fact" is.
Really? So the 9-11 Commission is mistaken?
{b.s.e.}
This is what Robert David Steele has to say about Cheney.
Robert David Steele Vivas is known for his promotion of Open Source Intelligence (OSI). He is a former Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer for twenty years and was the second-ranking civilian (GS-14) in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988-1992. Steele is a former clandestine services case officer with the Central Intelligence Agency.
{b.s.e.}
George Bush lying about 9-11
Bush getting destroyed by question on knowledge of 9-11 prior to Sept. 11.
jerZ07002
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Bush getting destroyed by question on knowledge of 9-11 prior to Sept. 11.
please....george bush would get destroyed if someone asked him the names of his daughters. the man is a bumbling fool.
{b.s.e.}
quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
please....george bush would get destroyed if someone asked him the names of his daughters. the man is a bumbling fool.
agreed. however, the colour basically drains from his face because he was caught without guard, with no scrutinous advisory forethought or advice on how to answer a tough question. the video before that, explains how he contradicts the official Washington story that he first heard about the attack whilst reading to school children, after the second plane hit the towers. In the video he goes on to say he saw the first plane hit the tower, musing to himself, 'What a bad pilot'.
The fact that he and Cheney went before the Commission behind closed doors without a transcript of the hearing sets off warning bells, doesn't it? Shouldn't it?
The man is guilty of something, you don't agree? I'm not being abstract here either. I don't see why his own actions don't speak for themselves. The entire administration lied about the Iraq connection. He rigged (with his brother) an election, if I'm not mistaken. His father is a sinister bastard, his grandfather was a sinister bastard. It's quite evident he lies about most everything, how could he possibly be telling the truth about 9-11?
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
You really like that list, don't you? If you'd like to argue the basmement eyewitness, fine. You don't give me a clear reason why Cheney usurped power from the military and controlled NORAD on 9-11? And of course, the Bush/Saudi/Bin Laden ties are all fallacies as well.
You do a great job of being cynical, let me say, but copying and pasting from that stupid list is pretty redundant and means nothing to me. Explain to me why all those 'little' coincidences are overlooked by you in your reply.
Let's stick to the facts, I'll leave eyewitness testimony to the birds. Truly, he might be lying, and there's no sense in muddling fact with stories.
-Cheney, without reason, usurped NORAD from the military months prior to 9-11 and had them stand down from intercepting the planes.
-Marvin Bush, head of Securacom, contracted to WTC
-Nearly all the concrete in the Towers was pulverized to dust the consistency of talcum powder in the air. That required far more energy than floors falling a few feet or even a thousand feet.
-The mushrooming of the Towers into dust clouds three to five times the diameter of each Tower before the destruction reached the ground cannot be explained by the falling of floors and damage to the core foundations.
Im sick and tired of providing the real facts to you 9/11 deniers. Most (though not all) of those questions have answers, which you would know if you really were someone that bothered to research it beyond the idiotic websites that give you these questions in the first place. If you really were an honest person just after "the truth" I wouldn't have to be doing all the hard work for you. Any simple google search could provide you with the answers you seek.
Its not my job to bother with people that constantly and consistently fall into line with those 10 conspiracy theory characteristics I keep posting.
Until then though,
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
{b.s.e.}
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Im sick and tired of providing the real facts to you 9/11 deniers. Most (though not all) of those questions have answers, which you would know if you really were someone that bothered to research it beyond the idiotic websites that give you these questions in the first place. If you really were an honest person just after "the truth" I wouldn't have to be doing all the hard work for you. Any simple google search could provide you with the answers you seek.
Its not my job to bother with people that constantly and consistently fall into line with those 10 conspiracy theory characteristics I keep posting.
Until then though,
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
you didn't address anything that i've said, merely cycling back with rhetoric, like it's too much effort to keep nailing all these 'conspiracies' to the wall.
What do you make of the Commission testimony:
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
That doesn't raise your suspicions even slightly? sad.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
you didn't address anything that i've said,
i wasn't trying to.
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
merely cycling back with rhetoric, like it's too much effort to keep nailing all these 'conspiracies' to the wall.
ive been providing such evidence for more than a couple of years now, you conspiracy loons never listen so im through trying. like i said, if you actually gave a you would already have found the answers. i know i can reel off almost all of the 911 conspiracy theories, why cant you reel off some of the "official" answers?
go look at the JREF forums, they've discussed just about everything already.
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
What do you make of the Commission testimony:
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
That doesn't raise your suspicions even slightly? sad.
They would raise a question if cheney was in charge of NORAD at the time (he wasn't) or if these "orders" had a context. What orders are being discussed btw? Do you know or do you merely assume?
pkcRAISTLIN
haha. check out this truther making a speech at a public event (in this case a gay pride event) because they can't get enough people to their own events. i love how at the end people start abusing her, shame it was cut short though.
apparently its becoming quite common for truthers to tag along to protests that have absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. haha.
XaNaX
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
In regards to Cheney and NORAD,
NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES
Public Hearing
Friday, May 23, 2003
Hart Senate Office Building
Room 216
Washington, DC
[i]......excerpt........
[[the following Cheney stand down order is confused for a shoot down order]]
MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.
and the cycle continues...:wtf:
Yes the cycle does continue. You post another small blurb of information taken completely out of its original context and pass it off as some kind of evidence to support your false claim. Could you possibly find an more unclear, ambiguous piece of "evidence" than this? What orders are they even talking about? Where does this state that Cheney was in command of NORAD?
This article was written with the actual tapes from NORAD on 9/11 and reconstructs the timeline of events based on them. You will see that NORAD wasn't even made aware that American 77 was hijacked until 9:35 AM and at that point the plane was 6 miles from the White House. So please explain to me how if ing NORAD and all the air traffic controllers in the country were not aware of the location of American 77 until it was 6 miles from the White House two minutes before it crashed was some jackass updating Cheney on its location starting with when it is 50 miles out? 50 miles out from where? They had no idea where the plane was or where it was going until it was already on top of the Pentagon.
If you read that story you will also find that Cheney was at no time in control of NORAD on 9/11 nor did he issue any orders either to shoot or to not shoot down aircraft. In fact Cheney never had any authority to issue any such orders. In any situation the order to shoot down a commercial air liner over the USA would always have to come directly from President Bush, an order he did eventually issue (although too late because all the planes were already down at that point). NORAD never had the authority to shoot taken away from them prior to 9/11 because they never had the authority to begin with.
Again, I ask you to post one piece of clear, specific, and factual evidence that states that Cheney was directly in control of NORAD and was preventing them from intercepting the planes on 9/11. You won't be able to because it is not true, it is not a fact, and there is no evidence. It is a lie just like the rest of that conspiracy theory truther crap that you and the rest of the tinfoil hat brigade post in this thread.
The actual FACTUAL account of the day shows for a fact that fighters were scrambled from Otis as early as 8:44 AM and were ordered to head to New York City at full afterburner traveling at supersonic speeds. However because of the confusion of the situation, the fact that the hijackers had turned off the planes transponders, and that they were flying the planes below radar coverage NORAD was sending its fighters after targets that it couldn't actually locate. And remember at this point the order to ground all air traffic had not yet been issued so there are thousands of planes in the sky. Fighters to cover DC were scrambled from Langley but were also chasing an unknown target and were coming from too far away to make an intercept before the Pentagon was hit.
So maybe you would like to retract the "fact" you posted about Cheney and NORAD and see if you can salvage some tiny shred of credibility in this discussion? If not I don't see any point in engaging in any further discussions on this topic with you and I'll just simply reply to all your posts with this:
culorut
Cheney was in command and the criminal did not order the plane to be shot down. It was the first time in history that this power was granted to the VP and coincidentally it passed just before 9/11 happened.
Norman Mineta testimony on Cheney stand down/shoot down censored
