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Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11? (pg. 7)
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | | WTC 9/11 SECOND HIT "VERY RARE UNIQUE VIDEO", THIS CLIP WILL STOP ALL THOSE CONSPIRACY VIDEOS ON THE NET ABOUT THE SECOND HIT COMING FROM A NON-AIRPLANE |
I don't subscribe to the pod-plane theory myself.
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Well obviously little trained Bush gnomes set charges at predetermined, fragile structural points to explode only after the others collapsed.
Sheesh...:crazy: |
So you are saying WTC 7 was purposely demolished?
If you keep ignoring the question then you are actually saying it's true. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
So you are saying WTC 7 was purposely demolished?
If you keep ignoring the question then you are actually saying it's true. |
So you don't buy into the Bush-gnome theory then?
I don't know enough information yet to actually make an informed decision regarding that question.
I just thought the fact that it did actually fall was far more important than the reason why.... |
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| Marc Summers |
Bush was in office for about 8 months, the administration managed to make an elaborate conspiracy in that time? It's physically impossible.
You people are idiots. If there was a conspiracy, the democrats would be the first to point it out because both parties have agendas to make each other fail, which is why our country fails. There is a commission that has studied this, and there is no conspiracy. They have concluded that this was a failure on all levels, not just a failure of the executive branch. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
So you don't buy into the Bush-gnome theory then?
I don't know enough information yet to actually make an informed decision regarding that question.
I just thought the fact that it did actually fall was far more important than the reason why.... |
Then refrain from joking on a serious matter.
Understand that you cannot counter the fact that WTC 7 fell not because of jet fuel nor airliner impact. This is as unexplainable as the JFK magic bullet theory.
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Bush was in office for about 8 months, the administration managed to make an elaborate conspiracy in that time? It's physically impossible.
You people are idiots. If there was a conspiracy, the democrats would be the first to point it out because both parties have agendas to make each other fail, which is why our country fails. There is a commission that has studied this, and there is no conspiracy. They have concluded that this was a failure on all levels, not just a failure of the executive branch. |
Rather than interject with comments that make you look uninformed offer something worthwhile at the table.
There is no republican/democratic conspiracy. There is no conspiracy at all if all the events were laid out right in the open for everyone to see.
There are 9/11 victims and families that don't buy into the official findings. Are they conspiracy theorists? Obviously not. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Rather than interject with comments that make you look uninformed offer something worthwhile at the table.
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I'm pretty sure I made myself quite clear that I felt I didn't have enough information.
If that's not enough, then I'm happy to say you're barking up the wrong tree... |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I'm pretty sure I made myself quite clear that I felt I didn't have enough information.
If that's not enough, then I'm happy to say you're barking up the wrong tree... |
He wasn't talking to you ;) |
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| donnybrasco |
| This poll continues to be a source of embarrassment to this board, imho. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
There's an automatic assumption here that just because there were tons of rubble means somehow that ALL the oxygen was miraculously cut off.
I'm willing to bet that obviously, it wasn't and since they did find molten liquid, it only furthers my point. |
I don't think you have a point other than to be argumentative simply for argument's sake. You're obviously just talking out of your ass again, but I've gotten used to it so whatever.
The level of oxygen in the atmosphere (let alone any pockets of air that could have been trapped under thousands of tons of debris) would be insufficient to produce enough heat to raise the temperature of steel to that of it's melting point (around 1510ºC). Steel is too thermally conductive and hardens as soon as it cools.
Even an Oxyacetylene torch itself (which burns at around 3400 degrees Celsius) wouldn't be able to create the pools of molten steel that were found in the sub-basement levels of those towers. And due to the thermodynamics of the steel beams, their heat dissipating properties would only be further increased by the fact that they were anchored to the cool bedrock (almost 80 feet below the earth's surface and 70 feet below sea level.)
That's the reason why so many people think that Thermite could have been used to take the buildings down. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trancer-X
He wasn't talking to you ;) |
Sometimes you have those people that can offer worthwhile information and then there are those that badger the truth seekers with childish rhetoric and name calling. See next comment for example.
| quote: | Originally posted by donnybrasco
This poll continues to be a source of embarrassment to this board, imho. |
Did someone just make you an admin? If not, don't speak for them. You are speaking for yourself and not others.
The anonymity offered by the poll is one of it's strong points.
Leaving comments for or against is totally up to those that do not want to remain anonymous no matter how silly they may be. But it comes at a price. Chiding one for their beliefs is tanamount to schoolyard bullying.
And lord knows we have a lot of long distance gangsters on forums and bbs's such as this.
As the author of this poll I commend people for voting. Voting your beliefs, whether for or against, without leaving a comment is fine. Be sure to check out my other polls. |
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| Trancer-X |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Bush was in office for about 8 months, the administration managed to make an elaborate conspiracy in that time? It's physically impossible. |
And Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were never in the White House before? Not even since the 1970's when they served under Gerald Ford? Interesting.
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| Trancer-X |
Cheney-Rumsfeld Surveillance Plans Date Back to 1980s
Commentary/Analysis, Peter Dale Scott,
New America Media, Jan 03, 2006
Editor's Note: Illegal eavesdropping and illegal detentions of U.S. citizens marks a revival of presidential powers curtailed since Watergate, and likely grew out of a secret Reagan-era program that planned to suspend the U.S. Constitution in the event of a national emergency.
Revelations that the National Security Agency (NSA) has engaged in warrantless eavesdropping in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act prompted President Bush to admit last month that in 2002 he directly authorized the activity in the wake of 9/11.
But there are reasons to suspect that the illegal eavesdropping, and the related program of illegal detentions of U.S. citizens as well as foreign nationals, began earlier. Both may be part of what Vice President Dick Cheney has called the Bush administration's restoration of "the legitimate authority of the presidency" -- practices exercised by Nixon that were outlawed after Watergate.
In the 1980s Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld discussed just such emergency surveillance and detention powers in a super-secret program that planned for what was euphemistically called "Continuity of Government" (COG) in the event of a nuclear disaster.
At the time, Cheney was a Wyoming congressman, while Rumsfeld, who had been defense secretary under President Ford, was a businessman and CEO of the drug company G.D. Searle. Overall responsibility for the program had been assigned to Vice President George H.W. Bush, "with Lt. Col. Oliver North...as the National Security Council action officer," according to James Bamford in his book, "A Pretext for War."
These men planned for suspension of the Constitution, not just after nuclear attack, but for any "national security emergency," which they defined in Executive Order 12656 of 1988 as: "Any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States." Clearly 9/11 would meet this definition.
As developed in the mid-1980s by Oliver North in the White House, the plans called for not just the surveillance but the potential detention of large numbers of American citizens. During the Iran-Contra hearings, North was asked about his work on "a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution." The chairman, Democratic Senator Inouye, ruled that this was a "highly sensitive and classified" matter, not to be dealt with in an open hearing.
The supporting agency for the planning and implementation was the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). FEMA was headed for much of the 1980s by Louis Giuffrida, whose COG plans for massive detention became so extreme that even President Reagan's then Attorney General, William French Smith, raised objections.
Smith eventually left Washington, while COG continued to evolve. And in May 2001 Cheney and FEMA were reunited: President George W. Bush appointed Cheney to head a terrorism task force and created a new office within FEMA to assist him. In effect, Bush was authorizing a resumption of the kind of planning that Cheney and FEMA had conducted under the heading of COG.
Press accounts at the time claimed that the Cheney terrorism task force accomplished little and that Cheney himself spent the entire month of August in a remote location in Wyoming. But this may have just been the appearance of withdrawal; as author James Mann points out in "The Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet," Cheney had regularly gone off to undisclosed locations in the 1980s as part of his secret COG planning.
As to the actual role of Bush, Cheney and FEMA on 9/11 itself, much remains unclear. But all sources agree that a central order at 10 a.m. from Bush to Cheney contained three provisions, of which the most important was, according to the 9/11 Commission Report, "the implementation of continuity of government measures."
The measures called for the immediate evacuation of key personnel from Washington. Both Cheney and Rumsfeld refused to leave, but Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was helicoptered to a bunker headquarters inside a mountain. Cheney also ordered key congressional personnel, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert, to be flown out of Washington, along with several cabinet members.
During Cheney's later disappearance from public view for a long period after the attack, he too was working from a COG base -- "Site R," the so-called "Underground Pentagon" on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border, according to Bamford.
Many actions of the Bush presidency resemble not only what Nixon did in the 1970s, but what Cheney and Rumsfeld had planned to restore under COG in the 1980s in the case of an attack. Prominent among these have been the detention of so-called "enemy combatants," including U.S. citizens, and placing them in special camps. Now as before, a policy of detentions outside the Constitution has been accompanied by a program of extra-constitutional surveillance to determine who will be detained.
As Cheney told reporters on his return last month from Pakistan, "Watergate and a lot of things around Watergate and Vietnam, both during the '70s served, I think, to erode the authority" of the president. But he defended as necessary for national security the aggressive program he helped shape under President Bush, which includes warrantless surveillance and extrajudicial imprisonment -- in effect, a new Imperial Presidency.
At least two Democrats in Congress have suggested that Bush could be impeached for his illegal surveillance activities. The chances of impeachment may depend on whether Congress can prove that planning for this, like planning for the Iraq War, began well before 9/11.
PNS contributor Peter Dale Scott is author of "Drugs, Oil, and War: The United States in Afghanistan, Colombia, and Indochina” (Rowman & Littlefield, 2003) and is completing a book on "Deep Politics and the Road to 9/11." Visit his Web site.
http://news.pacificnews.org/news/vi...8930f269e2bde50 |
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| donnybrasco |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Did someone just make you an admin? If not, don't speak for them. You are speaking for yourself and not others. |
Anyone would claim 9-11 was a big conspiracy is the same kind of person who would claim that the Holocoust never happened.
This thread has nothing to do with real debate of genuine issues; You guys are kidding yourselves. I feel sorry for you that your lives have been wasted like this. :( |
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