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Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11? (pg. 81)
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| ogvh5150 |
There were three collapses of buildings that day in NYC. So far that reporter should have seen two with one on the way. No one is seeing it in that timeframe.
That reporter is putting the third collapse into past tense when it hasn't even happened yet.
BTW There are NO photos or videos of the whole or major part of the south face of WTC7. The only pictures I have seen are the ones with the dust clouds from the WTC1/2 collapses covering WTC7. Those are side shots and not full face on. If people did shoot any pictures at Ground Zero they never show any of the south side of WTC7.
Gladio and state sponsored false-flag terrorism.
But we can continue with the battered wife syndrome when it comes to all that. The "Even though my husband beats me but he's still a good man" nonsense. |
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| Magnetonium |
Besides, if the other side of the WTC7 was terribly on fire, burning heavily, there'd be video crews and lots of pictures to show the huge fires by sensationalism-hungry media, as we have plenty of bloody pictures of WTC1/2 and Pentagon to show for. But WTC7 collapse due to fire is theories from the pro-government agenda, as its obvious no steel-frame building like that heavy-steel nerve center (intelligence, FBI, etc.) of New York ever collapsed. This was a specially designed building to withstand earthquakes and fires, so its so silly to consider how lack of even photographic evidence to suggest that the building was heavily on fire, other than few small pockets of fire that somehow sprinklers didnt put out, oddly enough. |
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| ogvh5150 |
+1
My sentiments exactly. Just worded different. You're on point. |
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| misterpink |
This is an excellent topic, and one I think people think too little about. What makes me believe there was a conspiracy, or at least, prior knowledge of the attacks, was the third building collapsing, in perfect form, without anything actually hitting it. That just seems odd. I'm not an expert, but it seems odd.
There wouldn't have been the need for a huge conspiracy, just a couple of people at a high level within the pentagon capable of supplying knowledge and funding for those involved. It's pretty much a given that JFK was shot by the CIA, so why not something a little more sinister.?
Also, on any given day, at the time of the attacks, there is normally something like fifty thousand or so people in the two buildings...so why on this day were there only twenty five hundred or so killed? Again, I haven't really done any research on the subject, so my opinions don't count, as far as I'm concerned.
My belief is that a person doesn't have a right to an opinion if it's not an informed one. |
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| ogvh5150 |
I've always have said if someone can believe in Atlantis, aliens, UFO's and other theories then they have room for one more.
If they can believe in the conspiracy that Saddam© had nukes, that Stalin and Mao killed tens of millions in state sponsored terror, they can make room for one more conspiracy. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
If they can believe in the conspiracy that Saddam© had nukes, that Stalin and Mao killed tens of millions in state sponsored terror, they can make room for one more conspiracy. |
Some people insist on "official" approval of it first, you know, kind of like the one you just mentioned :D |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | | New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani recounts, “I went down to the scene and we set up headquarters at 75 Barclay Street, which was right there, with the police commissioner, the fire commissioner, the head of emergency management, and we were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was going to collapse. And it did collapse before we could actually get out of the building, so we were trapped in the building for ten, 15 minutes, and finally found an exit and got out, walked north, and took a lot of people with us.” [ABC News, 9/11/2001] |
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| venomX |
Don't bother reading the thread now! It's not like anyone posted that already! |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by misterpink
Again, I haven't really done any research on the subject, so my opinions don't count, as far as I'm concerned. |
glad you realise that.
| quote: | [i]Originally posted by Magnetonium/i]
Besides, if the other side of the WTC7 was terribly on fire, burning heavily, there'd be video crews and lots of pictures to show the huge fires by sensationalism-hungry media, as we have plenty of bloody pictures of WTC1/2 and Pentagon to show for. But WTC7 collapse due to fire is theories from the pro-government agenda, as its obvious no steel-frame building like that heavy-steel nerve center (intelligence, FBI, etc.) of New York ever collapsed. This was a specially designed building to withstand earthquakes and fires, so its so silly to consider how lack of even photographic evidence to suggest that the building was heavily on fire, other than few small pockets of fire that somehow sprinklers didnt put out, oddly enough. |
oh i see! so no photos is evidence that the government planted explosives in the building!.
again, i challenge you to give me some kind of valid reason for ignoring the testimony of firefighters there on the day, and their assessment that WTC7 was gutted by a massive fireball. give me just one reason and ill be happy :rolleyes:
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Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day. |
link
just one of many such quotes from the experts there on the day. i still havent heard ANY of you give me a reason for your instant dismissal of such evidence. |
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| PETRAN |
| quote: | | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN |
Hey we don't expect you to be with the good guys since you are a 20 level chaotic-evil mage mate! Most of us here are lawful-good paladins and because we have "aura of protection", we can instantly sense the evil conspiracies (and persons) and put an end to them with our holy swords! |
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| culorut |
| quote: | | i challenge you to give me some kind of valid reason for ignoring the testimony of firefighters there on the day, and their assessment that WTC7 was gutted by a massive fireball. give me just one reason and ill be happy |
It seems like you are ignoring the many more testimony's from firefighters regarding the foreknowledge of WTC7's collapse. If there was a massive fire in WTC7 then so be it. This same fire did not bring the building down though because only bombs can do it in approx 6.5 seconds.
Reports of Foreknowledge of the Collapse of Building 7 in the Oral Histories
Joseph Cahill -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
The reason we were given for why we were moving was that 7 World Trade Center was going to collapse or was at risk of collapsing. So we must have been somewhere in this area where we would have had a problem with that. But I honestly don't remember.
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They wanted us to move the treatment sector because of 7 World Trade Center was imminently to collapse, which, of course, it did.
Interview, 10/15/2001, New York Times
Tiernach Cassidy -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Engine 3
Then, like I said, building seven was in eminent collapse. They blew the horns. They said everyone clear the area until we got that last civilian out. We tried to give another quick search while we could, but then they wouldn't let us stay anymore. So we cleared the area. ... So yeah, then we just stayed on Vesey until building seven came down.
Interview, 12/30/2001, New York Times
Pete Castellano -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Ladder 149
We were ordered down from the tower ladder because of a possible collapse at Tower 7.
Interview, 12/28/2001, New York Times
Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.), Battalion 13
So we started heading over to where Building 7 was at and they were like Building 7 is going to collapse, you can't go over there, this and that, and there was another building that they thought was going to collapse that was like right behind the triage center, the building that we were in.
Interview, 1/23/2002, New York Times
Frank Congiusta -- Battalion Fire Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
While we were searching the subbasements, they decided that Seven World Trade Center, which was across the street, was going to collapse. So they called us out.
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When I came out, they were calling us on the radio to tell us to get out. Then I reported that the search was negative, and then they wouldn't let anybody near the site pretty much, because Seven World Trade Center was going to come down.
Interview, 1/8/2002, New York Times
Louis Cook -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
We got to Chambers and Greenwich, and the chief turns around and says, 'There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker.' We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse.
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We hear over the fire portable, 'Everybody evacuate the site. It's going to collapse.' Mark Steffens starts yelling, 'Get out of here! Get out of here! Get out of here! We've got to go! We've got to go! It's going to collapse.'
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We pulled the car over, turned around and just watched it pancake.
Interview, 10/17/2001, New York Times
Frank Cruthers -- Fire Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area --
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-- be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it. Thre was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolands and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed.
Interview, 10/31/2001, New York Times
Roy David -- Fire Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.), Battalion 8
At Pace University we had -- we set up -- I'm sorry, we set up in that lobby of that building, the lobby and the actual whole first floor. There was a threat of collapse of building number seven, so 225, we had to evacuate it.
Interview, 10/12/2001, New York Times
Frank Fellini -- Fire Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing.
So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex. Eventually around 5:00 or a little after, building number seven came down.
Interview, 12/3/2001, New York Times
Brian Fitzpatrick -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Ladder 22
We were then positioned on Vesey Street between North End and the West Side Highway because there was an imminent collapse on 7 World Trade, and it did collapse.
Interview, 12/6/2001, New York Times
Joseph Fortis -- E.M.T (E.M.S.), Battalion 13
When the third building came down, we were on that corner in front of the school, and everybody just stood back. They pulled us all back at the time, almost about an hour before it, because they were sure -- they knew it was going to come down, but they weren't sure. So they pulled everyone back, and everybody stood there and we actually just waited and just waited and waited until it went down, because it was unsafe.
Interview, 11/9/2001, New York Times
Ray Goldbach -- Fire Captain (F.D.N.Y.), Executive Assistant to the Fire Commissioner
There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the slightest chance of somebody else getting injured. So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse.
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Made the decision to back everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way.
Interview, 10/24/2001, New York Times
George Holzman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Ladder 47
We stayed there for quite sometime when I don't even know who, I think it was someone, Lieutenant Lowney spoke to, asked us to leave the area, they were concerned about 7 World Trade Center collapsing.
Interview, 1/17/2002, New York Times
Edward Kennedy -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Engine 44
That was the only Mayday that I remember, and to tell you the truth, the only guy that really stands out in my mind that I remember being on the radio was Chief Visconti.
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I remember him screaming about 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that.
Interview, 1/17/2002, New York Times
Matthew Long -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Ladder 43
And at that point they were worried that 7 was coming down so they were calling for everyone to back out.
So I waited for -- we waied for the boss, Lieutenant Rohan, in the middle of the rubble and we all walked out together back to the West Side Highway and pretty much hung out by the marina when 7 came down.
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Because they were just adamant about 7 coming down immediately. I think we probably got out of that rubble and 18 minutes later is when 7 came down.
Interview, 10/9/2001, New York Times
Thomas McCarthy -- Fire Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
So when I get to the command post, they just had a flood of guys standing there. They were just waiting for 7 to come down.
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I made it down Vesey Street to just in front of the overpass of 7 World Trade. People were saying don't stand under there, it's going to come down.
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So at that point we were a little leery about how the bridge was tied in, so no one was really going onto it, and then they were also saying 7 was going to come down. They chased everyone off the block.
Interview, 10/11/2001, New York Times
Kevin McGovern -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Engine 53
At that time Seven World Trade Center was burning and was in danger of collapsing. After a while the lieutentant said, "Let's move, let's get out of here, let's take a break."
Actually I think at that point just as we were leaving, guys -- I don't know who it was. I guess it was a chief was saying clear the area, because they were worried about number Seven World Trade Center coming down and burying guys who were digging.
So we basically went back to the rig, because they were clearing that area out. It took about three hours for Seven World Trade Center to actually come down. So we were off to the side.
Interview, 12/11/2001, New York Times
Vincent Massa -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Engine 64
At this point Seven World Trade Center was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down.
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I remember later on in the day as we were waiting for seven to come down, they kept backing us up Vesey, almost like a full block. They were concerned about seven coming down, and they kept changing us, establishing a collapse zone and backing us up.
Interview, 12/4/2001, New York Times
Daniel Nigro -- Department Cheif (F.D.N.Y.)
The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn't lose any more people.
We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was given, at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely.
Interview, 10/24/2001, New York Times
Christopher Patrick Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.), Engine 205
Probably about 4:00 o'clock, 5:00 o'clock, our radios went dead, because we heard reports all day long of 7 World Trade possibly coming down and I think at 5:30 that came down.
Interview, 12/12/2001, New York Times
William Ryan -- Fire Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there.
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So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed.
Interview, 10/18/2001, New York Times
Thomas Smith -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
They backed me off the rig because seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down.
Interview, 12/6/2001, New York Times
Robert Sohmer -- Fire Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
As the day went on they started worrying about 7 World Trade Center collapsing and they ordered an evacuation from that area so at that time, we left the area with the other companies, went back to the command post on Broadway
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We were about to proceed our operation there and this was in the afternoon, I would say approximately maybe 2:00 roughly, where we started to operate and then they asked us to fall back again due to the potential of 7 World Trade Center collapsing.
Interview, 1/17/2002, New York Times
James Wallace -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
They were saying building seven was going to collapse, so we regrouped and went back to our rig. We went to building four or three; I don't know. We were going to set up our tower ladder there. They said no good because building seven is coming down.
Interview, 12/29/2001, New York Times
Rudolf Weindler -- Fire Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
I ran into Chief Coloe from the 1st Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24, and Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.
Interview, 1/15/2002, New York Times
Decosta Wright -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
They said -- we were like, are you guys going to put that fire out? I was like, you know, they are going to wait for it to burn down and it collapsed.
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Yes, so basically they measured out how far the building was going to come, so we knew exactly where we could stand.
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5 blocks. 5 blocks away. We still could see. Exactly right on point, the cloud just stopped right there. Then when that building was coming down, the same thing, that same rumbling.
Interview, 10/11/2001, New York Times
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evi...eknowledge.html |
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