Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Yeah, I had to. I suppose I could have suggested a grain of salt alongside. :wtf:
or you could avoid going out of your way to say something yet pretend that you dont really mean it. a way of muddying the waters if you will.
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Evem if I'm wrong it doesn't matter, that's what you guys don't understand. Just because I don't have the air-tight case against the government doesn't mean they aren't guilty s.
3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
its ridiculous. either there is evidence that supports a particular hypothesis or there isn't.
you've spent several pages here arguing, yet you still dont have a coherent thesis.
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
I really don't know what happened on 9-11. None of us do. What I can't believe is that some people can't at least acknowledge that something quite shady transpired on that day. When you investigate a murder, motive is a primary issue. Who would have benefited from such an act? A pissed off, and piss poor region in the Middle East? Or the oil hungry war machine that's walking around in their back yard with a permanent military operation. Obviously Al Qaeda took credit for the bombings, though initially bin Laden denied the allegations*. It was quite politically advantageous for them, no? I'm pretty sick of going in circles in this thread.
There is sufficient evidence and enough lies to fool most people, and the idea that they would perpetrate against their own people so horrendous that it's near impossible for everyone to take anything but the official story. The official story of the WTC collapse is absurd.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but not questioning important events that will shape our of future [such as this] is much, much worse.
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
its really that simple. you put far too much stock in crazy ideas that don't make any sense that have been examined and debunked by far more compelling arguments, evidence and levels of expertise.
there's not even a real debate. and as you have just displayed, nobody has a coherent story that makes any sense. none.
creationists = holocaust deniers = 9/11 truthers. same MO, same techniques.
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
*edit
______ Source: Khilafah.com, 10 Oct 2001
The Al-Qaidah group had nothing to do with the 11 September attacks on the USA, according to Usama bin Ladin in an interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat. Usama bin Ladin went on to suggest that Jews or US secret services were behind the attacks, and to express gratitude and support for Pakistan, urging Pakistan’s people to jihad against the West. The following is the text of an interview conducted by a "special correspondent", published in the Pakistani newspaper Ummat on 28 September, place and date of interview not given.
UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?
USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti-Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either ruler[s or enemies of Muslims.
see, this an example of you not being able to tell good evidence from bad. you fail to appreciate the political context (and i dont mean "fail" in the really ty internet fad way :D )
osama is a guest of the taliban in afghanistan. he is reasonably entrenched and has a fair amount of power, but he isn't about to go getting himself kicked out of the country by his host if he could avoid it. the taliban, rightfully fearing US reprisal, got osama to say that. by the time osama had fled the country he was more than open about it.
its that simple.
9/11 conspiracies dont make any sense.
XaNaX
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Like, holy , I have better things to do in my life than research the government's role in 9-11. I've got a job and a girlfriend, and last I checked I'm Canadian. Good luck with your shiny new Patriot Act and NSA wiretaps. The Government's your friend, hey Xanax? :gsmile:
Even though it took pages of pointless postings to get here it is nice to see you finally admit that you have absolutely no credible evidence to support any of your 9/11 conspiracy theories. I'll give you credit for that, you are the first truther on here to do so.
And no, the government is far from your friend, but they are not responsible for 9/11 either.
{b.s.e.}
quote:
Originally posted by XaNaX
Even though it took pages of pointless postings to get here it is nice to see you finally admit that you have absolutely no credible evidence to support any of your 9/11 conspiracy theories. I'll give you credit for that, you are the first truther on here to do so.
And no, the government is far from your friend, but they are not responsible for 9/11 either.
Eh, if I had been really, really interested in putting together a thesis, and marginalizing my information, cross referencing and editing, I would have. But I can look at a page like http://911research.wtc7.net/ and so can the rest of you. Debating this on a forum, sporadically at that, is no way to actually discuss what happened. There are clear signs of demolition, and I won't be swayed from that. However, I will no longer carry its argument in this forum: I'm sick of people questioning my intelligence. To me, this topic is dead.
later.
culorut
quote:
-eye witness testimony that an american airlines jet crashed into the pentagon; hundreds of witnesses that saw a plane crash into the pentagon
Where are the eyewitnesses? A large number of people saw another plane also flying over the Pentagon at the exact moment. No one can prove the exact flight it was from the ground idiot.
-bodies from those that were known to have flown on flight 77 matched via DNA
Matched to DNA when they killed the passengers somewhere else or simply fabricated. Who cares I want you to show me where Flight 77 is.
-flight 77 nor its passengers have turned up elsewhere
We are all aware of this, It definitely did not show up at the Pentagon or in the official video released.
-american airlines never reported any other of its passenger jets missing
Who said it was another American Airline plane that did crash into the Pentagon? What happened to Flight 77 is the question moron.
-multiple pieces of wreakage consistent with a 757 found on site
None have ever been directly matched to the Flight 77, post the links up please and back up these claims.
-relatives of those who died on flight 77 saying their loved ones had called them and said their plane had been hijacked by terrorists with knives and box cutters.
Does not prove Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. Show us 100% concrete proof. If Flight 77 crashed there where is it? End of.
nice to see you quit when things got too hard for you {b.s.e.}. you have an unshakeable belief in controlled demolition but without a hypothesis for how it happened. basically you worked out what you think happened, and then went in search of evidence to support that fact.
not dissimilar from how you approached the jesus is the sun conspiracy theory.
good work champ. your commitment to research and critical thought is amazing.
quote:
Originally posted by culorut
3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
culorut
quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
That's a sick site, thanks for the link. ;)
The best one out there regarding what happened at the Pentagon to my knowledge.
culorut
quote:
3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
You obviously have not been able to find any information backing up the statements you made earlier. Maybe you should be looking at what you have posted and answer some questions.
Where is Flight 77 if it is not present in the "official" video released?
Some documents, links or videos actually showing Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon would be a good start instead of pasting garbage from some "anti-truther" websites.....LOL.
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by culorut
You obviously have not been able to find any information backing up the statements you made earlier. Maybe you should be looking at what you have posted and answer some questions.
Where is Flight 77 if it is not present in the "official" video released?
Some documents, links or videos actually showing Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon would be a good start instead of pasting garbage from some "anti-truther" websites.....LOL.
As I have already stated: there are hundreds of witnesses that saw an american airlines plane crash into the pentagon. And the bodies of those from flight 77 were discovered in the debris. If you think something other than flight 77 hit the pentagon, the onus is actually on YOU to provide it. Prove it wasn't flight 77 arseclown.
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes
5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
XaNaX
quote:
Originally posted by culorut
The best one out there regarding what happened at the Pentagon to my knowledge.
So what exactly is this site claiming happened at the Pentagon? The webfilter here at work blocks videos from tinfoil hat wearing tards so I cant watch that, but I've read all of the text on the web site and nowhere did I see any mention of what they think actually happened. I did get a kick out of this in their mission statement:
quote:
We patently reject hypotheses that can not be proven and therefore deliberately refuse “no plane theories” or anything based on the use of unknown or “exotic weaponry” as much as we reject the official conspiracy theory.
lol so how does it feel no-planer to even have these wackjobs thinking you are an idiot?
lol you douchebag truthers crack me up. Not a single one of you has any evidence to back up any alternate theories of what happened at the Pentagon but at least you do a good job of exposing each other. This nutjob truther web site did a complete and total debunking of the Pentacon because the Pentacon doesn't agree with their own conspiracy theory. I'll post both the abstract and the full link:
A Critical Review of ‘The PentaCon - Smoking Gun Version’
Pentagon Flyover or “Left/Right” Straw-man Argument?
Abstract:
The purpose of this review is to examine the claims made in the film the PentaCon.The eyewitness statements in the PentaCon will be examined and compared with other testimony based on my original research.Although this analysis is primarily an examination of the eyewitness statements in the film, some issues pertaining to the physical evidence will also be briefly examined. It will be shown that although the eyewitness statements in the PentaCon are largely corroborated by other testimony, the conclusions of the PentaCon are not supported by their own—or any other credible eyewitness testimony.
The PentaCon – Smoking Gun Version[2]
The film begins with two scenarios and accompanying visuals:
1. The PentaCon Hypothesis A commercial plane approaches the Pentagon from NORTH of the CITGO gas station on 9/11, and then flies over it.
2. The ‘Official Story’ A commercial plane approaches from SOUTH of the CITGO gas station on 9/11, knocks over light poles, hits a generator, and crashes into the bottom floors of the Pentagon.
The first scenario would imply that the Pentagon attack was staged; lamp pole damage was faked, damage to the generator was faked, explosives were used to fake the hole damage (speculation by the PentaCon), the plane flew over the Pentagon, and that plane debris was planted.All of these claims will be examined.
The PentaCon claims that four eyewitness statements are “smoking gun proof” that the entire official story is a “farce.”
The Flight 77 NSTB report study by Pilots for 9/11 Truth is briefly mentioned and deserves separate study by 9/11 researchers.[3]
The film tries to make the case that four eyewitness statements are enough evidence to counter all other physical evidence (and implicitly, all other contradictory eyewitness statements).One of the main defects of the PentaCon is that it only considers four eyewitness statements—ignoring a very large body of eyewitness statements and previous research into the testimony.[4]
Why is this significant?“Citing only evidence that is favorable to one side as if no contrary evidence exists is known as SPECIAL PLEADING.”[5]
“Special Pleading is a fallacy in which a person applies standards, principles, rules, etc. to others while taking herself (or those she has a special interest in) to be exempt, without providing adequate justification for the exemption. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
Person A accepts standard(s) S and applies them to others in circumtance(s) C.
Person A is in circumstance(s) C.
Therefore A is exempt from S.”[6]
Typically, special pleading is used in studies of the Pentagon Eyewitness testimony to claim that a few statements are more relevant or important than the rest of the eyewitness testimony combined.Special pleading is not only used to ignore other evidence; it can be used to take certain portions of one statement from a witness as being true, while ignoring all contradictory evidence by the same and other witnesses.The most famous example of this practice is seen in this Pentagon eyewitness quotation taken out of context:
“It was like a cruise missile with wings.”[7]
Quoting this statement to give the impression that this witness saw a missile is special pleading because it ignores the full context of the statement:
“I saw this plane, this jet, an American airlines jet, coming. And I thought, ‘This doesn’t add up, it’s really low.’ And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings.”[8]
please get back to us when all you tinfoil hat wearing assclowns get your stories straight
