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Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11? (pg. 72)
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| xstalkrx |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
I think it's FAIRLY OBVIOUS that Bush and the rest of the Mason/Illuminati/Shape-shifting reptilians are forcing the media not to show this kind of information. They want people to be ignorant! |
Here is a test of how the media is far left...
Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them how the economy is doing. 9/10 will tell you its all going to hell. I tried this at work and it was funny and disturbing at the same time because of how misguided people really are.
In reality the stock market broke ALL TIME records in November, and unemployment hovers around all time lows. |
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| culorut |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
exactly. the argument i believe relates to added "camouflage" to aid the terrorists. or something like that :rolleyes: obviously from people that have never read the NORAD converstaions and exactly how incompetent government departments can be at times. |
They did pull it off, the government that is.
They are the only ones who can pull off operations this size. We are not just talking about "camouflaging" terrorists here, these where global military strikes primarily aimed at diverting your own nations military/defenses from the intented strike zone(s). (i.e. ground zero)
It was certainly not Osama Bin Laden who made the orders to divert the military.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...litaryExercises
Obviously it's the trolls who are not reading the info in this thread. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
They did pull it off, the government that is.
They are the only ones who can pull off operations this size. We are not just talking about "camouflaging" terrorists here, these where global military strikes primarily aimed at diverting your own nations military/defenses from the intented strike zone(s). (i.e. ground zero)
It was certainly not Osama Bin Laden who made the orders to divert the military.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...litaryExercises
Obviously it's the trolls who are not reading the info in this thread. |
whatever you reckon mate
| quote: |
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) was established in 1958 through a bilateral U.S.-Canada agreement. Its mission was, and is, to defend the airspace of North America and protect the continent. That mission does not distinguish between internal and external threats; but because NORAD was created to counter the Soviet threat, it came to define its job as defending against external attacks.
NEADS reporting structureNORAD headquarters are located in Colorado, with three regional sectors including the Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Rome, New York. Two air bases, Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts and Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Virginia, had two fighters ready and on alert.
Air defense of the United States relied on close cooperation between the NORAD and the FAA. As they existed on 9/11, the protocols for the FAA to obtain military assistance from NORAD required multiple levels of notification and approval at the highest levels of government.
The protocols in place on 9/11 for the FAA and NORAD to respond to a hijacking presumed that
The hijacked aircraft would be readily identifiable and would not attempt to disappear;
There would be time to address the problem through the appropriate FAA and NORAD chains of command; and
Hijacking would take the traditional form: that is, it would not be a suicide hijacking designed to convert the aircraft into a guided missile.
9/11
On 9/11, the defense of U.S. airspace depended on close interaction between two federal agencies: the FAA and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).
On the morning of 9/11, the existing protocol for hijackings was unsuited in every respect for what was about to happen.
The FAA's Boston Center and other air traffic control centers alerted NEADS of the four hijackings, though with little or no advance notice for NEADS and NORAD to mount a response.
At most, NEADS had 9 minutes advance notice of the first hijacking (American Airlines Flight 11)
NEADS was notified about United Airlines Flight 175 at 9:03 a.m. - the same time that it crashed into the World Trade Center's south tower.
NEADS had four minutes advance notice of American Airlines Flight 77.
NEADS was notified about United Airlines Flight 93 at 10:07 a.m. - after it already had crashed.
American Airlines Flight 11
Main article: American Airlines Flight 11
NEADS received notification of the hijacking 9 minutes before American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the World Trade Center at 8:46 a.m. Of all four hijacked aircraft, this nine minutes was the most time that NEADS had to respond.
Although the Boston Center air traffic controller realized at an early stage that there was something wrong with American 11, he did not immediately interpret the plane's failure to respond as a sign that it had been hijacked. At 8:14, when the flight failed to heed his instruction to climb to 35,000 feet, the controller repeatedly tried to raise the flight. He reached out to the pilot on the emergency frequency. Though there was no response, he kept trying to contact the aircraft.
At 8:21, American 11 turned off its transponder, immediately degrading the information available about the aircraft. The controller told his supervisor that he thought something was seriously wrong with the plane, although neither suspected a hijacking. The supervisor instructed the controller to follow standard procedures for handling a "no radio" aircraft.
The controller checked to see if American Airlines could establish communication with American 11. He became even more concerned as its route changed, moving into another sector's airspace. Controllers immediately began to move aircraft out of its path, and asked other aircraft in the vicinity to look for American 11.108
At 8:24:38, the following transmission came from American 11:
We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport.
The controller only heard something unintelligible; he did not hear the specific words "we have some planes." The next transmission came seconds later:
Nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.
The controller told us that he then knew it was a hijacking. He alerted his supervisor, who assigned another controller to assist him. He redoubled his efforts to ascertain the flight's altitude. Because the controller didn't understand the initial transmission, the manager of Boston Center instructed his quality assurance specialist to "pull the tape" of the radio transmission, listen to it closely, and report back.
Between 8:25 and 8:32, in accordance with the FAA protocol, Boston Center managers started notifying their chain of command that American 11 had been hijacked. At 8:28, Boston Center called the Command Center in Herndon to advise that it believed American 11 had been hijacked and was heading toward New York Center's airspace.
By this time, American 11 had taken a dramatic turn to the south. At 8:32, the Command Center passed word of a possible hijacking to the Operations Center at FAA headquarters. The duty officer replied that security personnel at headquarters had just begun discussing the apparent hijack on a conference call with the New England regional office. FAA headquarters began to follow the hijack protocol but did not contact the NMCC to request a fighter escort.
The Herndon Command Center immediately established a teleconference between Boston, New York, and Cleveland Centers so that Boston Center could help the others understand what was happening.
At 8:34, the Boston Center controller received a third transmission from American 11:
Nobody move please. We are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves.
In the succeeding minutes, controllers were attempting to ascertain the altitude of the southbound flight.
Military Notification and Response
Boston Center did not follow the protocol in seeking military assistance through the prescribed chain of command. In addition to notifications within the FAA, Boston Center took the initiative, at 8:34, to contact the military through the FAA's Cape Cod facility. The center also tried to contact a former alert site in Atlantic City, unaware it had been phased out. At 8:37:52, Boston Center reached NEADS. This was the first notification received by the military-at any level-that American 11 had been hijacked:
FAA: Hi. Boston Center TMU [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
NEADS: Is this real-world or exercise?
FAA: No, this is not an exercise, not a test
NEADS ordered to battle stations the two F-15 alert aircraft at Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Massachusetts, 153 miles away from New York City. The air defense of America began with this call.
At NEADS, the report of the hijacking was relayed immediately to Battle Commander Colonel Robert Marr. After ordering the Otis fighters to battle stations, Colonel Marr phoned Major General Larry Arnold, commanding general of the First Air Force and NORAD's Continental Region. Marr sought authorization to scramble the Otis fighters. General Arnold later recalled instructing Marr to "go ahead and scramble them, and we'll get authorities later." General Arnold then called NORAD headquarters to report.
F-15 fighters were scrambled at 8:46 from Otis Air Force Base. But NEADS did not know where to send the alert fighter aircraft, and the officer directing the fighters pressed for more information: "I don't know where I'm scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination." Because the hijackers had turned off the plane's transponder, NEADS personnel spent the next minutes searching their radar scopes for the primary radar return. American 11 struck the North Tower at 8:46. Shortly after 8:50, while NEADS personnel were still trying to locate the flight, word reached them that a plane had hit the World Trade Center.
Radar data show the Otis fighters were airborne at 8:53. Lacking a target, they were vectored toward military-controlled airspace off the Long Island coast. To avoid New York area air traffic and uncertain about what to do, the fighters were brought down to military airspace to "hold as needed. "From 9:09 to 9:13, the Otis fighters stayed in this holding pattern.
In summary, NEADS received notice of the hijacking nine minutes before it struck the North Tower. That nine minutes' notice before impact was the most the military would receive of any of the four hijackings.
United Airlines Flight 175
Main article: United Airlines Flight 175
NEADS was first notified about United Airlinse Flight 175 at 9:03 a.m., the same time that it crashed into the World Trade Center's south tower. They had zero advanced notice.
One of the last transmissions from United Airlines Flight 175 is, in retrospect, chilling. By 8:40, controllers at the FAA's New York Center were seeking information on American 11. At approximately 8:42, shortly after entering New York Center's airspace, the pilot of United 175 broke in with the following transmission:
UAL 175: New York UAL 175 heavy.
FAA: UAL 175 go ahead.
UAL 175: Yeah. We figured we'd wait to go to your center. Ah, we heard a suspicious transmission on our departure out of Boston, ah, with someone, ah, it sounded like someone keyed the mikes and said ah everyone ah stay in your seats.
FAA: Oh, okay. I'll pass that along over here.
Minutes later, United 175 turned southwest without clearance from air traffic control. At 8:47, seconds after the impact of American 11, United 175's transponder code changed, and then changed again. These changes were not noticed for several minutes, however, because the same New York Center controller was assigned to both American 11 and United 175.The controller knew American 11 was hijacked; he was focused on searching for it after the aircraft disappeared at 8:46.
At 8:48, while the controller was still trying to locate American 11, a New York Center manager provided the following report on a Command Center teleconference about American 11:
Manager, New York Center: Okay. This is New York Center. We're watching the airplane. I also had conversation with American Airlines, and they've told us that they believe that one of their stewardesses was stabbed and that there are people in the cockpit that have control of the aircraft, and that's all the information they have right now.
The New York Center controller and manager were unaware that American 11 had already crashed.
At 8:51, the controller noticed the transponder change from United 175 and tried to contact the aircraft. There was no response. Beginning at 8:52, the controller made repeated attempts to reach the crew of United 175. Still no response. The controller checked his radio equipment and contacted another controller at 8:53, saying that "we may have a hijack" and that he could not find the aircraft.
Another commercial aircraft in the vicinity then radioed in with "reports over the radio of a commuter plane hitting the World Trade Center." The controller spent the next several minutes handing off the other flights on his scope to other controllers and moving aircraft out of the way of the unidentified aircraft (believed to be United 175) as it moved southwest and then turned northeast toward New York City.
At about 8:55, the controller in charge notified a New York Center manager that she believed United 175 had also been hijacked. The manager tried to notify the regional managers and was told that they were discussing a hijacked aircraft (presumably American 11) and refused to be disturbed. At 8:58, the New York Center controller searching for United 175 told another New York controller "we might have a hijack over here, two of them."
Between 9:01 and 9:02, a manager from New York Center told the Command Center in Herndon:
Manager, New York Center: We have several situations going on here. It's escalating big, big time. We need to get the military involved with us.. . . We're, we're involved with something else, we have other aircraft that may have a similar situation going on here.
The "other aircraft" referred to by New York Center was United 175. Evidence indicates that this conversation was the only notice received by either FAA headquarters or the Herndon Command Center prior to the second crash that there had been a second hijacking.
While the Command Center was told about this "other aircraft" at 9:01, New York Center contacted New York terminal approach control and asked for help in locating United 175.
Terminal: I got somebody who keeps coasting but it looks like he's going into one of the small airports down there.
Center: Hold on a second. I'm trying to bring him up here and get you-There he is right there. Hold on.
Terminal: Got him just out of 9,500-9,000 now.
Center: Do you know who he is?
Terminal: We're just, we just we don't know who he is.We're just picking him up now.
Center (at 9:02): Alright. Heads up man, it looks like another one coming in.
The controllers observed the plane in a rapid descent; the radar data terminated over Lower Manhattan. At 9:03, United 175 crashed into the South Tower.
Meanwhile, a manager from Boston Center reported that they had deciphered what they had heard in one of the first hijacker transmissions from American 11:
Boston Center: Hey . . . you still there?
New England Region: Yes, I am.
Boston Center: . . . as far as the tape, Bobby seemed to think the guy said that "we have planes." Now, I don't know if it was because it was the accent, or if there's more than one, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna reconfirm that for you, and I'll get back to you real quick. Okay?
New England Region: Appreciate it.
Unidentified Female Voice: They have what?
Boston Center: Planes, as in plural.
Boston Center: It sounds like, we're talking to New York, that there's another one aimed at the World Trade Center.
New England Region: There's another aircraft?
Boston Center: A second one just hit the Trade Center.
New England Region: Okay. Yeah, we gotta get-we gotta alert the military real quick on this.
Boston Center immediately advised the New England Region that it was going to stop all departures at airports under its control. At 9:05, Boston Center confirmed for both the FAA Command Center and the New England Region that the hijackers aboard American 11 said "we have planes." At the same time, NewYork Center declared "ATC zero"-meaning that aircraft were not permitted to depart from, arrive at, or travel through New York Center's airspace until further notice.
Within minutes of the second impact, Boston Center instructed its controllers to inform all aircraft in its airspace of the events in New York and to advise aircraft to heighten cockpit security. Boston Center asked the Herndon Command Center to issue a similar cockpit security alert nationwide. We have found no evidence to suggest that the Command Center acted on this request or issued any type of cockpit security alert.
Military Notification and Response
The first indication that the NORAD air defenders had of the second hijacked aircraft, United 175, came in a phone call from New York Center to NEADS at 9:03. The notice came at about the time the plane was hitting the South Tower.
By 9:08, the mission crew commander at NEADS learned of the second explosion at the World Trade Center and decided against holding the fighters in military airspace away from Manhattan:
Mission Crew Commander, NEADS: This is what I foresee that we probably need to do. We need to talk to FAA. We need to tell 'em if this stuff is gonna keep on going, we need to take those fighters, put 'em over Manhattan. That's best thing, that's the best play right now. So coordinate with the FAA. Tell 'em if there's more out there, which we don't know, let's get 'em over Manhattan. At least we got some kind of play.
The FAA cleared the airspace. Radar data show that at 9:13, when the Otis fighters were about 115 miles away from the city, the fighters exited their holding pattern and set a course direct for Manhattan. They arrived at 9:25 and established a combat air patrol (CAP) over the city.
Because the Otis fighters had expended a great deal of fuel in flying first to military airspace and then to New York, the battle commanders were concerned about refueling. NEADS considered scrambling alert fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to New York, to provide backup. The Langley fighters were placed on battle stations at 9:09. NORAD had no indication that any other plane had been hijacked.
American Airlines Flight 77
Main article: American Airlines Flight 77
NEADS was informed about American Airlines Flight 77 at 9:34 a.m., four minutes before it crashed into the Pentagon.
American 77 began deviating from its flight plan at 8:54, with a slight turn toward the south. Two minutes later, it disappeared completely from radar at Indianapolis Center, which was controlling the flight.
The controller tracking American 77 told us he noticed the aircraft turning to the southwest, and then saw the data disappear. The controller looked for primary radar returns. He searched along the plane's projected flight path and the airspace to the southwest where it had started to turn. No primary targets appeared. He tried the radios, first calling the aircraft directly, then the air-line. Again there was nothing. At this point, the Indianapolis controller had no knowledge of the situation in New York. He did not know that other aircraft had been hijacked. He believed American 77 had experienced serious electrical or mechanical failure, or both, and was gone.
Shortly after 9:00, Indianapolis Center started notifying other agencies that American 77 was missing and had possibly crashed. At 9:08, Indianapolis Center asked Air Force Search and Rescue at Langley Air Force Base to look for a downed aircraft. The center also contacted the West Virginia State Police and asked whether any reports of a downed aircraft had been received. At 9:09, it reported the loss of contact to the FAA regional center, which passed this information to FAA headquarters at 9:24.
By 9:20, Indianapolis Center learned that there were other hijacked aircraft, and began to doubt its initial assumption that American 77 had crashed. A discussion of this concern between the manager at Indianapolis and the Command Center in Herndon prompted it to notify some FAA field facilities that American 77 was lost. By 9:21, the Command Center, some FAA field facilities, and American Airlines had started to search for American 77. They feared it had been hijacked. At 9:25, the Command Center advised FAA headquarters of the situation.
The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center. The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.
According to the radar reconstruction, American 77 reemerged as a primary target on Indianapolis Center radar scopes at 9:05, east of its last known position. The target remained in Indianapolis Center's airspace for another six minutes, then crossed into the western portion of Washington Center's airspace at 9:10.As Indianapolis Center continued searching for the aircraft, two managers and the controller responsible for American 77 looked to the west and southwest along the flight's projected path, not east-where the aircraft was now heading. Managers did not instruct other controllers at Indianapolis Center to turn on their primary radar coverage to join in the search for American 77.
In sum, Indianapolis Center never saw Flight 77 turn around. By the time it reappeared in primary radar coverage, controllers had either stopped looking for the aircraft because they thought it had crashed or were looking toward the west. Although the Command Center learned Flight 77 was missing, neither it nor FAA headquarters issued an all points bulletin to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets. American 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, D.C.
By 9:25, FAA's Herndon Command Center and FAA headquarters knew two aircraft had crashed into the World Trade Center. They knew American 77 was lost. At least some FAA officials in Boston Center and the New England Region knew that a hijacker on board American 11 had said "we have some planes." Concerns over the safety of other aircraft began to mount. A manager at the Herndon Command Center asked FAA headquarters if they wanted to order a "nationwide ground stop." While this was being discussed by executives at FAA headquarters, the Command Center ordered one at 9:25.
The Command Center kept looking for American 77. At 9:21, it advised the Dulles terminal control facility, and Dulles urged its controllers to look for primary targets. At 9:32, they found one. Several of the Dulles controllers "observed a primary radar target tracking eastbound at a high rate of speed" and notified Reagan National Airport. FAA personnel at both Reagan National and Dulles airports notified the Secret Service. The aircraft's identity or type was unknown.
Reagan National controllers then vectored an unarmed National Guard C130H cargo aircraft, which had just taken off en route to Minnesota, to identify and follow the suspicious aircraft. The C-130H pilot spotted it, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and at 9:38, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: "looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir."
Military Notification and Response
NORAD heard nothing about the search for American 77. Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed: American 11.
At 9:21, NEADS received a report from the FAA:
FAA: Military, Boston Center. I just had a report that American 11 is still in the air, and it's on its way towards-heading towards Washington.
NEADS: Okay. American 11 is still in the air?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: On its way towards Washington?
FAA: That was another-it was evidently another aircraft that hit the tower. That's the latest report we have.
NEADS: Okay.
FAA: I'm going to try to confirm an ID for you, but I would assume he's somewhere over, uh, either New Jersey or somewhere further south.
NEADS: Okay. So American 11 isn't the hijack at all then, right?
FAA: No, he is a hijack.
NEADS: He-American 11 is a hijack?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: And he's heading into Washington?
FAA: Yes. This could be a third aircraft.
The mention of a "third aircraft" was not a reference to American 77.There was confusion at that moment in the FAA. Two planes had struck the World Trade Center, and Boston Center had heard from FAA headquarters in Washington that American 11 was still airborne. We have been unable to identify the source of this mistaken FAA information.
The NEADS technician who took this call from the FAA immediately passed the word to the mission crew commander, who reported to the NEADS battle commander:
Mission Crew Commander, NEADS: Okay, uh, American Airlines is still airborne. Eleven, the first guy, he's heading towards Washington. Okay? I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I'm gonna take the fighters from Otis, try to chase this guy down if I can find him.
After consulting with NEADS command, the crew commander issued the order at 9:23:"Okay . . . scramble Langley. Head them towards the Washington area.. . . [I]f they're there then we'll run on them.. . .These guys are smart." That order was processed and transmitted to Langley Air Force Base at 9:24. Radar data show the Langley fighters airborne at 9:30. NEADS decided to keep the Otis fighters over New York. The heading of the Langley fighters was adjusted to send them to the Baltimore area. The mission crew commander explained to us that the purpose was to position the Langley fighters between the reported southbound American 11 and the nation's capital.
At the suggestion of the Boston Center's military liaison, NEADS contacted the FAA's Washington Center to ask about American 11. In the course of the conversation, a Washington Center manager informed NEADS: "We're looking-we also lost American 77."The time was 9:34. This was the first notice to the military that American 77 was missing, and it had come by chance. If NEADS had not placed that call, the NEADS air defenders would have received no information whatsoever that the flight was even missing, although the FAA had been searching for it. No one at FAA headquarters ever asked for military assistance with American 77.
At 9:36, the FAA's Boston Center called NEADS and relayed the discovery about an unidentified aircraft closing in on Washington: "Latest report. Aircraft VFR [visual flight rules] six miles southeast of the White House. . . . Six, southwest. Six, southwest of the White House, deviating away." This startling news prompted the mission crew commander at NEADS to take immediate control of the airspace to clear a flight path for the Langley fighters: "Okay, we're going to turn it . . . crank it up. . . . Run them to the White House." He then discovered, to his surprise, that the Langley fighters were not headed north toward the Baltimore area as instructed, but east over the ocean. "I don't care how many windows you break," he said. "Damn it.. . . Okay. Push them back."
The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target's location. Second, a "generic" flight plan-prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly-incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go "090 for 60" superseded the original scramble order.
After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington, D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but "it kind of faded" over Washington. The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away.
Right after the Pentagon was hit, NEADS learned of another possible hijacked aircraft. It was an aircraft that in fact had not been hijacked at all. After the second World Trade Center crash, Boston Center managers recognized that both aircraft were transcontinental 767 jetliners that had departed Logan Airport. Remembering the "we have some planes" remark, Boston Center guessed that Delta 1989 might also be hijacked. Boston Center called NEADS at 9:41 and identified Delta 1989, a 767 jet that had left Logan Airport for Las Vegas, as a possible hijack. NEADS warned the FAA's Cleveland Center to watch Delta 1989.The Command Center and FAA headquarters watched it too. During the course of the morning, there were multiple erroneous reports of hijacked aircraft. The report of American 11 heading south was the first; Delta 1989 was the second.
NEADS never lost track of Delta 1989, and even ordered fighter aircraft from Ohio and Michigan to intercept it. The flight never turned off its transponder. NEADS soon learned that the aircraft was not hijacked, and tracked Delta 1989 as it reversed course over Toledo, headed east, and landed in Cleveland. But another aircraft was heading toward Washington, an aircraft about which NORAD had heard nothing: United 93.
United Airlines Flight 93
Main article: United Airlines Flight 93
NEADS was notified about United Airlines Flight 93 at 10:07 a.m., after it already had crashed.
At 9:27, after having been in the air for 45 minutes, United 93 acknowledged a transmission from the Cleveland Center controller. This was the last normal contact the FAA had with the flight.
Less than a minute later, the Cleveland controller and the pilots of aircraft in the vicinity heard "a radio transmission of unintelligible sounds of possible screaming or a struggle from an unknown origin."
The controller responded, seconds later: "Somebody call Cleveland? "This was followed by a second radio transmission, with sounds of screaming. The Cleveland Center controllers began to try to identify the possible source of the transmissions, and noticed that United 93 had descended some 700 feet. The controller attempted again to raise United 93 several times, with no response. At 9:30, the controller began to poll the other flights on his frequency to determine if they had heard the screaming; several said they had.
At 9:32, a third radio transmission came over the frequency: "Keep remaining sitting. We have a bomb on board." The controller understood, but chose to respond: "Calling Cleveland Center, you're unreadable. Say again, slowly." He notified his supervisor, who passed the notice up the chain of command. By 9:34, word of the hijacking had reached FAA headquarters.
FAA headquarters had by this time established an open line of communication with the Command Center at Herndon and instructed it to poll all its centers about suspect aircraft. The Command Center executed the request and, a minute later, Cleveland Center reported that "United 93 may have a bomb on board. "At 9:34, the Command Center relayed the information concerning United 93 to FAA headquarters. At approximately 9:36, Cleveland advised the Command Center that it was still tracking United 93 and specifically inquired whether someone had requested the military to launch fighter aircraft to intercept the aircraft. Cleveland even told the Command Center it was prepared to contact a nearby military base to make the request. The Command Center told Cleveland that FAA personnel well above them in the chain of command had to make the decision to seek military assistance and were working on the issue.
Between 9:34 and 9:38, the Cleveland controller observed United 93 climbing to 40,700 feet and immediately moved several aircraft out its way. The controller continued to try to contact United 93, and asked whether the pilot could confirm that he had been hijacked. There was no response.
Then, at 9:39, a fourth radio transmission was heard from United 93:
Ziad Jarrah: Uh, this is the captain. Would like you all to remain seated. There is a bomb on board and are going back to the airport, and to have our demands [unintelligible]. Please remain quiet.
The controller responded: "United 93, understand you have a bomb on board. Go ahead." The flight did not respond.
From 9:34 to 10:08, a Command Center facility manager provided frequent updates to Acting Deputy Administrator Monte Belger and other executives at FAA headquarters as United 93 headed toward Washington, D.C. At 9:41, Cleveland Center lost United 93's transponder signal. The controller located it on primary radar, matched its position with visual sightings from other aircraft, and tracked the flight as it turned east, then south.
At 9:42, the Command Center learned from news reports that a plane had struck the Pentagon. The Command Center's national operations manager, Ben Sliney, ordered all FAA facilities to instruct all aircraft to land at the nearest airport. This was an unprecedented order. The air traffic control system handled it with great skill, as about 4,500 commercial and general aviation aircraft soon landed without incident.
At 9:46 the Command Center updated FAA headquarters that United 93 was now "twenty-nine minutes out of Washington, D.C."
At 9:49, 13 minutes after Cleveland Center had asked about getting military help, the Command Center suggested that someone at headquarters should decide whether to request military assistance:
FAA Headquarters: They're pulling Jeff away to go talk about United 93.
Command Center: Uh, do we want to think, uh, about scrambling aircraft?
FAA Headquarters: Oh, God, I don't know.
Command Center: Uh, that's a decision somebody's gonna have to make probably in the next ten minutes.
FAA Headquarters: Uh, ya know everybody just left the room.
At 9:53, FAA headquarters informed the Command Center that the deputy director for air traffic services was talking to Monte Belger about scrambling aircraft. Then the Command Center informed headquarters that controllers had lost track of United 93 over the Pittsburgh area. Within seconds, the Command Center received a visual report from another aircraft, and informed headquarters that the aircraft was 20 miles northwest of Johnstown. United 93 was spotted by another aircraft, and, at 10:01, the Command Center advised FAA headquarters that one of the aircraft had seen United 93 "waving his wings." The aircraft had witnessed the hijackers' efforts to defeat the passengers' counterattack.
United 93 crashed in Pennsylvania at 10:03:11, 125 miles from Washington, D.C. The precise crash time has been the subject of some dispute. The 10:03:11 impact time is supported by previous National Transportation Safety Board analysis and by evidence from the Commission staff's analysis of radar, the flight data recorder, the cockpit voice recorder, infrared satellite data, and air traffic control transmissions.
Five minutes later, the Command Center forwarded this update to headquarters:
Command Center: O.K. Uh, there is now on that United 93.
FAA Headquarters: Yes.
Command Center: There is a report of black smoke in the last position I gave you, fifteen miles south of Johnstown.
FAA Headquarters: From the airplane or from the ground?
Command Center: Uh, they're speculating it's from the aircraft.
FAA Headquarters: Okay.
Command Center: Uh, who, it hit the ground. That's what they're speculating, that's speculation only.
The aircraft that spotted the "black smoke" was the same unarmed Air National Guard cargo plane that had seen American 77 crash into the Pentagon 27 minutes earlier. It had resumed its flight to Minnesota and saw the smoke from the crash of United 93, less than two minutes after the plane went down. At 10:17, the Command Center advised headquarters of its conclusion that United 93 had indeed crashed.
Despite the discussions about military assistance, no one from FAA headquarters requested military assistance regarding United 93. Nor did any manager at FAA headquarters pass any of the information it had about United 93 to the military.
Military Notification and Response
NEADS first received a call about United 93 from the military liaison at Cleveland Center at 10:07. Unaware that the aircraft had already crashed, Cleveland passed to NEADS the aircraft's last known latitude and longitude. NEADS was never able to locate United 93 on radar because it was already in the ground.
At the same time, the NEADS mission crew commander was dealing with the arrival of the Langley fighters over Washington, D.C., sorting out what their orders were with respect to potential targets. Shortly after 10:10, and having no knowledge either that United 93 had been heading toward Washington or that it had crashed, he explicitly instructed the Langley fighters: "negative- negative clearance to shoot" aircraft over the nation's capital.
The news of a reported bomb on board United 93 spread quickly at NEADS. The air defenders searched for United 93's primary radar return and tried to locate other fighters to scramble. NEADS called Washington Center to report:
NEADS: I also want to give you a heads-up, Washington.
FAA (DC): Go ahead.
NEADS: United nine three, have you got information on that yet?
FAA: Yeah, he's down.
NEADS: He's down?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: When did he land? 'Cause we have got confirmation-
FAA: He did not land.
NEADS: Oh, he's down? Down?
FAA: Yes. Somewhere up northeast of Camp David.
NEADS: Northeast of Camp David.
FAA: That's the last report. They don't know exactly where.
The time of notification of the crash of United 93 was 10:15. The NEADS air defenders never located the flight or followed it on their radar scopes. The flight had already crashed by the time they learned it was hijacked.
Military intercepts
Theory
The military is perfectly capable of intercepting commercial aircraft.
Fact
The hijackers turned of the aircraft transponders, making it much more difficult to locate the aircraft (as radar blips, among all the many radar blips from all aircraft). Further, bureaucratic problems and incompetency inhibited the government from a quick, efficient, timely response to the hijackings.
Some conspiracy theorists point to the 1999 NORAD intercept of Payne Stewart's Learjet before it crashed. There was already a F-16 in flight, on training, and available. Unlike the hijacked 9/11 aircraft, the transponder in the Learjet was never turned off. These two facts made it possible to make the intercept.
References
FAA Believed Second 9/11 Plane Heading Towards NY for Emergency Landing - National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 165, George Washington University (September 9, 2005)
Bronner, Michael (September 2005) "9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes", Vanity Fair. |
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topic...php?title=NORAD
complicity or government failure? but, given youre one of those weirdos that dont believe a plane hit the pentagon i dont know why id expect you to understand :rolleyes: |
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| culorut |
I understand very clearly actually. You left out quite a large sum of info regarding NORAD though.
Of course I do not expect weirdo's like you to understand if you have not seen all the information (see below). There is so much more but I doubt you do not even know where to start on these, I will spare you the liberty.
Summation of Civilian Air Defense, Sept.11
Who is to Blame?
Part 1C of Sept 11: Unanswered Questions
by MalcontentX
communitycurrency.org
A fairly comprehensive overview of the failure of America's air defenses on 9/11
http://www.communitycurrency.org/Part1C.html
The Failure to Defend the Skies on 9/11
by Paul Thompson
Excellent overview of all aspects of the air-defense failure from Cooperative Research.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...essayairdefense
9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes:
Politics and Power
by Michael Bronner
Vanity Fair, August 2006
QUOTE
How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast head-quarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up...
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/.../08/norad200608
The FAA Knew!
But were they set up?
by Michael Kane
Very interesting article about Ptech, a Bush admin./Saudi connected company that supplied architecture software to the FAA
@ fromthewilderness
courtesy of jo56
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/cg..._faa_knew.shtml
Clarifications regarding Ptech software & addition information about Ptech
(thread "Ptech Connection To 911, Govt used Software; Co in FAA basement" started by jo56)
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_F...?showtopic=3380
9/11 Live or Fabricated: Do the NORAD Tapes Verify The 9/11 Commission Report?
by David Ray Griffin
An in depth look at the NORAD (NEADS) tapes which were exerpted by Vanity Fair, based on Griffin's 9/11 Commission report analysis.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php...006091418303369
F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements
reproduction of original New York Times article
by Mathew L. Wald
hosted:freerepublic, May 6 2004
QUOTE
At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1130775/posts
Senator Dayton: NORAD Lied About 9/11
By Nicholas Levis
Sunday, August 1, 2004
@ 911Truth.org
QUOTE
Mark Dayton has become the first U.S. senator to challenge the rush to consensus that "The 9/11 Commission Report" settles the open questions of Sept. 11, 2001.
In hearings last Friday, Sen. Dayton (D-MN) raised an obvious point: if the timeline of air defense response as promoted in the Kean Commission's best-selling book is correct, then the timeline presented repeatedly by NORAD during the last two years was completely wrong. Yet now no one at NORAD is willing to comment on their own timeline! ...
http://www.911truth.org/article.php...040731213239607
Have fun debunking weirdo. |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by xstalkrx
Here is a test of how the media is far left...
Walk up to anyone on the street and ask them how the economy is doing. 9/10 will tell you its all going to hell. I tried this at work and it was funny and disturbing at the same time because of how misguided people really are.
In reality the stock market broke ALL TIME records in November, and unemployment hovers around all time lows. |
You don't need a test to know the media is anything but liberal. Sure there are people who work for the media with liberal beliefs as education is the highest factor correlated with being a liberal and since most people who work at media outlets are college educated many of them hold liberal views. However that doesn't change the fact that they work for advertisement dollars which in turn makes them a slave to big business which is anything but liberal. When was the last time you saw an article saying that capitalism is a poor choice and maybe we should try something else? Never because you don't write articles like that and expect to keep your job.
I mean come on the president of Clearchannel even came out and said that Clearchannel is not in the business of providing well researched thoughtful news and music they're in the business of selling as many advertisements as they can and in turn creating the largest market they can for their clients. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by xstalkrx
The MEDIA in this country is heavily liberal biased. If these CT theories held any water, the media would shove it down our throats. |
It was easy to believe that Saddam had nukes wasn't it? After all it was the media through the information provided from the government that there were weapons of mass destruction.
Typical "I believe in God(s), Buddha, Allah, Shiva or the green man and mother nature but I don't believe the government had anything to do with 9/11" tripe.
If you believe in one non-tangible thing in your life then you can make room for one more. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
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i love it how your sites directly contradict each other. good work there. yep, there was one big conspiracy between all governmental departments :rolleyes: i can understand the obsession to make 9/11 a much more exciting affair, but the you children will swallow is amazing :haha:
i guess your lives are more interesting than the rest of us though.
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| _Ocean_Drive_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i love it how your sites directly contradict each other. good work there. yep, there was one big conspiracy between all governmental departments :rolleyes: i can understand the obsession to make 9/11 a much more exciting affair, but the you children will swallow is amazing :haha:
i guess your lives are more interesting than the rest of us though.
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Your wit and intellectual humour astounds me.
Did they find those WMDs in Iraq in the end? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_
Your wit and intellectual humour astounds me. |
i was trying to be neither witty nor intellectual.
| quote: | Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_
Did they find those WMDs in Iraq in the end? |
oh, now im convinced. the fact that iraq had no WMDs is hard evidence of a US government plot to bomb their own people with aeroplanes!! i cant believe i didnt make that mental leap before now. |
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| _Ocean_Drive_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i was trying to be neither witty nor intellectual.
oh, now im convinced. the fact that iraq had no WMDs is hard evidence of a US government plot to bomb their own people with aeroplanes!! i cant believe i didnt make that mental leap before now. |
But I bet you believed Mr. Rumsfeld when he told you that they did. Would you not agree on this point - that the US administration LIED about Iraq having WMD's?
If so, why can't they lie about other stuff? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_
But I bet you believed Mr. Rumsfeld when he told you that they did. Would you not agree on this point - that the US administration LIED about Iraq having WMD's? |
yes, i believed him. but it had nothing to do with what he said. i always believed hussein had kept weapons. so did much of the world.
| quote: | Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_
If so, why can't they lie about other stuff? |
of course they can lie. i dont trust the administration either. but its not just them. you have to consider the huge number of people in the government as well. i know a lot of people like to label the government as one large evil entity, but theyre pretty much people like you and i that happen to have gainful employment in the public sector.
the MASSIVE operation that was 9/11 just wouldnt be possible to carry out from inside the government and gotten away with. the sheer logistical nightmare that would be the planting of bombs in the WTCs is just the tip of the ice berg. fooling NORAD & NIST and eye-witnesses (especially re the pentagon) just wouldnt be possible. too many eyes and ears and brains.
governments just dont work like this. sure, black ops are carried out and evil things done by governments all round the world. but not like this, on this kind of scale. here is a government that couldn't "find" WMDs in iraq?? so youre ready to believe a massive conspiracy -taking in so many levels of government its not funny- to invade iraq, yet you dont find it weird that the US didnt plant some evidence of WMDs to justify the attack??
contrary to what people here seem to believe, the US government is comprised of thousands of individuals, its not one single entity with a "hive mind" that can act and do as it pleases with all members following blindly. the idea that the NIST investigators wouldnt go about their job to the very best of their ability just isnt credible.
get a job in any government agency and you'll see what i mean.
there were a million and one safer ways to carry out a similar attack that would have been far easier to effect than this huge and ridiculously complicated scheme. theres just no way in hell the US government would go to such treasoness(sp?) lengths in such a dangerous and convoluted way, with every chance of getting caught. the entire conspiracy makes no sense at all. |
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| alchimist |
I’m amazed that as the western world becomes “more” educated, people still have very strange beliefs. Before letting your imagination run wild and watching some crappy video on the internet made up of non classified material, facts which on closer inspection contradict the word, and not to forget the spooky sound track. You need to ask yourself the simple question, whats the more likely explanation.
For complex matters in science you cant always rely on common sense and critical thinking, you need to look at all the facts. I emphasise all, as conspiracy theorists in general often cling onto one piece of circumstantial evidence (or more often than not, no evidence at all) and ignore the contradicting 99% of evidence. An often forgotten practice of science is you need to record the misses as well as the hits and only then draw conclusions.
However this isn’t a complex matter of science, although this wonderful tool can be used to bebunk every single argument the morons who think 9/11 is faked can come up with. For example I remember some fool banging on about the fact the fire didn’t reach the necessary temperature to melt steel. Correct! (mp of steel is about 1,500 degrees, normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g. jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees) However the fool either ignored or was simply ignorant to the fact when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Therefore, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) was to be expected.
It is a matter of above all else common sense. Ask yourself what benefits would the government get from faking 9/11. I’m serious here what benefits??? Even if the government does only look after the top 2% and big business I still fail to see how it would aid them destroying the world trade centres. In the short term it did terrible things to their economy, and as we have seen America attacks anyone it likes, they could just come up with a normal lie, like sadam has WMDs… which doesn’t involve seriously effecting their economy and killing thousands of Americans. This leads onto the point, if indeed the government had murdered 3000 of its own citizens, don’t you think they would just kill the people making the 9/11 “the truth” videos and other crap??? This alone practically proves 9/11 wasn’t faked, your telling me that a government that can execute an operation with such precision and keep it a secrete, couldn’t stop some high school kids posting videos on the web…I mean at least be consistent.
If your not already convinced, this point is key (it also applies to people who think the moon landings were faked). The conspiracy would involve too many people for it ever to remain secrete!!! There are leeks all the time, governments cant keep secrete who’s having an affair with who… So many people were involved with the investigation, the conspiracy would have to involve thousands of people, which due to human nature isn’t possible!
Basically people need to get a grip, and try and think about things. I mean whats more likely, some alien travels across the universe to leave a crop circle in farmer bob’s field, or someone fakes it on photoshop? Before we claim stuff is out of this world we should first check it’s not in this world! Conspiracy theorists should peel their eyes away from the latest mis information and bad science they are reading and look to see what company they are in. How many leading mathematicians, physicists, chemists, economists, etc are with them??? And on the other hand how many kids and people who spent far too much time on the internet instead of the real world are in their corner??? Lets not forgot that around ¼ of Americans believe that aliens are abducting people, so the comment, a large number of people are simply thick is very accurate. I think the previous sentence sadly sums up why so many people believe 9/11 was faked.
Alch |
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