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Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11? (pg. 32)
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| skot_e |
don't know how someone worked out that $20 thing, and I don't have a US bill to see if it works, but it makes me laugh to think that in 1948 someone in Treasury designed the bill so that nearly 20 years later someone else could design a building that would be then targeted 30 years after that.
Talk about long term planning. |
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| ogvh5150 |
It's amazing that a few anti-conspiracy nuts forget that over TWO THIRDS of TA's believe there was a cover-up and yet post msm articles as if they were facts.
There is no CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT for commercial speech. That being so; why do people actually take the news media as the standard bearer for truth is beyond me.
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Commercial speech such as that from news media does not have to be accurate.
On February 14, a Florida Appeals court ruled there is absolutely nothing illegal about lying, concealing or distorting information by a major press organization. The court reversed the $425,000 jury verdict in favor of journalist Jane Akre who charged she was pressured by Fox Television management and lawyers to air what she knew and documented to be false information. The ruling basically declares it is technically not against any law, rule, or regulation to deliberately lie or distort the news on a television broadcast.
On August 18, 2000, a six-person jury was unanimous in its conclusion that Akre was indeed fired for threatening to report the station's pressure to broadcast what jurors decided was "a false, distorted, or slanted" story about the widespread use of growth hormone in dairy cows. The court did not dispute the heart of Akre's claim, that Fox pressured her to broadcast a false story to protect the broadcaster from having to defend the truth in court, as well as suffer the ire of irate advertisers.
Appellate Court Rules Media Can Legally Lie (Wayback link) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
It's amazing that a few anti-conspiracy nuts forget that over TWO THIRDS of TA's believe there was a cover-up |
oh well then, youve convinced me! :rolleyes: |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
It's amazing that a few anti-conspiracy nuts forget that over TWO THIRDS of TA's believe there was a cover-up |
well, i guess the obvious counter to that is most TA's are morons?
man what to believe? the TA moral majority or Popular Mechanics? jeez! GOD!! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
god, if i had to go throughout every day gauging my decisions against the intelectual "establishment" of TranceAddict then maybe life would make a little more sense. hmmm...naaahhh f**k that! |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
man what to believe? the TA moral majority or Popular Mechanics?
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I know huh? What a decision...... hmmmmm, :D |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
well, i guess the obvious counter to that is most TA's are morons?
man what to believe? the TA moral majority or Popular Mechanics? jeez! GOD!! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
god, if i had to go throughout every day gauging my decisions against the intelectual "establishment" of TranceAddict then maybe life would make a little more sense. hmmm...naaahhh f**k that! |
:haha: nice.
when youre not busy on your knees felating ol' george W youre a pleasure to read mate :p |
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| dcougar99 |
| quote: |
as for proving the government wasnt complicit, i think you just need to understand how many people would be required to keep this all a secret. think about it. |
just as in the 777 bombings... So called “training exercises” went live
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Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11
Alex Jones & Paul Joseph Watson | September 8 2004
For almost three years since 9/11 independent researchers have stockpiled individual smoking guns which prove that the official version of events was not only a lie but operationally impossible.
However, no single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners.
Until now. More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.
It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.
The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked. Click here for that article.
The drill scenario also explains a comment made by air traffic control personnel which was featured in a July 2004 BBC television report. Click here for that video clip and article. The controller is told that a hijacked airliner is heading for New York and responds by saying, "is this real world or an exercise?"
Alex Jones was one of the first to highlight the wargames in his documentary film 'Masters of Terror', which was released in August 2002. Click here to watch a video clip. Alex explains why the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.
What were the drills called and what was their nature?
1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.
2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January , Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?
3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.
4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.
5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.
Another example of how air defenses were purposefully kept preoccupied so they couldn't protect New York was reported by this website in December of 2003. The Air National Guard's 177th Fighter Wing, based at Atlantic City International Airport in Pomona, were just eight minutes away from New York and could have intercepted both Flight 11 and Flight 175.
Under NORAD procedures that date to the Cold War, two F-16 fighters from the 177th were parked around the clock on the Atlantic City runway. Pilots waited in a nearby building, ready to scramble.
But on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.
It was only after both trade towers were hit that the two F-16s landed and were refitted with air-to-air missiles, then sent aloft.
Now that we have established how NORAD were confused, delayed and distracted by the numerous wargames, the next question to ask is who if anyone was aware of which planes were 'real world' and which planes were 'exercise'? The answer to this question will provide us with the name of the individual who ran the operatonal execution of the 9/11 attack.
Dick Cheney.
Cheney was initially taken by the secret service to an underground bunker in the White House called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.
From there, according to CNN , Cheney directed the US government's response to the unfolding attack.
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:
"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"
As the plane in question hit the Pentagon, what else can we conclude but that the 'order' was not to shoot down the aircraft and to let it find its target.
Mineta stated that he did not know what the 'order' was because he wasn't there when it was made.
After the Pentagon was hit, Cheney was transfered to another bunker in what the Philadelphia Daily News describes as 'the underground Pentagon'.
Site R, a highly secure complex of buildings inside Raven Rock Mountain near Blue Ridge Summit, Pa., close to the Maryland-Pennsylvania state line and about seven miles north of Camp David, is a 53-year-old facility conceived at the start of the Cold War as an alternate command center in the event of nuclear war or an attack on Washington.
The bunker is built into a mountain hillside and is virtually camouflaged to the naked eye. The location betrays itself by the vast gaggle of satellites, microwave towers and antennae that festoon the perimeter. Inside the facility there are computer filled caverns and communication and tracking technology that would put a James Bond movie to shame.
The entire facility is guarded by heavily armed military police.
Within hours of 9/11 unfolding, five choppers had landed on the facility's helipad and top officials such as Paul Wolfowitz were ushered in to join Cheney in the command bunker.
Site R - also known as Raven Rock or the Alternate Joint Communications Center is from where vice-President Dick Cheney ran the aftermath of the 9/11 attack. Cheney's command superceded the orders of the Pentagon, the FAA or the White House. He is the number one suspect in the murder of nearly 3,000 innocent people.
In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted.
The smoking guns of 9/11 are no longer disparate jigsaw pieces that serve to just raise more questions than they answer. We now have a coherent and plausible explanation of how the events unfolded, why there was no air defense response, and a prime suspect as to who executed these actions. The facts fit this version of events.
The 9/11 truth movement has just taken a giant leap towards dismantling the lies of September 11and finally offering justice for those who lost their lives on that terrible day.
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| ogvh5150 |
The people here have spoken no matter what other trolls say.
If one were to ACTUALLY READ THE DAMN POST they will also see a THIRD of Americans in THAT poll BELIEVE in a cover up.
For those that skipped MATH CLASS it means ONE in THREE. |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Debunking The [Propaganda Mechanics] Debunkers
by Eric Hufschmid
In regards to the issue of NORAD, I think the best response is the public hearing in which Norman Mineta mentions that Dick Cheney and others were watching an airplane fly towards the Pentagon.
They were not describing a mysterious airplane with its transponder off. Rather, they were observing it as if they knew where it was going and had no concern :
NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES
Public Hearing, Friday, May 23, 2003
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"
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I have some specific responses below. The red color is from Popular Mechanics article.
A general remark about the Popular Mechanics article is:
There are a lot of silly remarks about 9-11 on the Internet, some from children, and some for amusement only, such as the possibility that Martians destroyed the World Trade Center towers. The article in Popular Mechanics has selected some of the sillier arguments. If they were serious researchers, they would address the issues that are brought up by Jimmy Walter and Eric Hufschmid. Jimmy Walter is offering this information at low cost to help educate the population.
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THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
The collapse of both World Trade Center towers--and the smaller WTC 7 a few hours later--initially surprised even some experts. But subsequent studies have shown that the WTC's structural integrity was destroyed by intense fire as well as the severe damage inflicted by the planes.
Where are these "subsequent studies"? The FEMA report about the collapse of the buidings admits that they could not figure out why Building 7 collapsed. The FEMA report is proof that there are still unsolved mysteries. Therefore, Popular Mechanics is foolish to claim that the issue has been resolved.
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"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
What is this "rest of the stuff" that was burning? The floors were concrete, and the frame was steel, so what was burning? Carpeting, styrofoam cups, and office paper?
 The fire in the South Tower was so small that it did not even spread from one side of the floor to the other. This issue is covered in detail in Chapter 4 of Painful Questions. Figure 4-1 on page 27 even shows a woman standing in the hole created by the airplane. How hot could these fires have been if people are walking around in the crash zone? (click the photo for more perspective)
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Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."
If the floors slid down like pancakes, then there should be a large pile of flooring on the ground, with office furniture, people, and carpeting squashed between the floors. Figure 5-4 is a diagram to show this dilemma. There is nothing in the rubble that suggests any floor fell down in one piece. The reports from the firemen and the photos, such as Figure 5-19, prove that every floor disintegrated into tiny pieces, and the pieces were scattered hundreds of feet.
Besides, the diagram in Figure 5-22 shows even if a floor fell down like a pancake, it would create a corresponding vacuum above it. Therefore, the air that was pushed out the windows would be sucked up through the windows above. The air would be displaced, it would not be thrown hundreds of feet out the windows at extreme velocity. The explusion of dust and the lack of a corresponding suction implies that gas was being created, such as from explosions. The floors were not simply falling down.
Another serious problem with the Pancake Theory is that photos, such as Figure 5-10, show that the top of the South Tower broke off and tipped over, and fell onto Building 4. None of the government reports mention that the top of the South Tower broke off, nor do they explain why the entire base of the South Tower would disintegrate after the top fell off.
Are the editors of Popular Mechanics getting their information from the government? If so, it is no wonder that they are naïve about the 9-11 attack. They should get the packet of books and DVDs that Jimmy Walter offers before they write any more articles.
Since nobody has explained the mysteries of the South Tower, only a fool would say that this issue has been resolved.
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FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
Where are the photos that prove 25% of Building 7 was scooped out? The photos published in reports, and those available on me Internet do not show anything other than trivial damage, such as some broken windows.
Tom Franklin, a professional photographer for a New Jersey newspaper, traveled quickly to the World Trade Center to get photographs. According to his own report, he was standing in front of Building 7 at about 4 p.m.. He took lots of photos, but where are his photos of Building 7? Why would he ignore a skyscraper with 25% of its first 10 floors scooped out?
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NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research.
Where is evidence that there was an intense fire in Building 7? The photos taken in the afternoon do not show intense fires. Just because a few investigators believe something, that does not make it true. They need evidence to support their beliefs.
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Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
How can a fire burn for seven hours without spreading to other offices or other floors? Perhaps some diesel fuel was dripping from a supply pipe. Since the fire was small, and since the building had a steel frame with concrete floors, the fire could not travel to other offices. So how could such an insignificant fire bring down an entire skyscraper?
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FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report.
Where is a photograph that shows a hole 75 feet wide? All the photos available in reports and the Internet show only small holes. What are we to believe, one person's wild speculation, or the photographs?
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Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings.
Nobody expects an airplane to create a cartoon-like outline of itself when it hits a building. However, if one wing hit the ground, where are the photographs of that wing? The photographs do not show anything resembling a wing.
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What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass.
Did the passengers and their luggage also turn into a liquid state and flow into the building? After they got into the building, did they solidify back into a solid state? What sort of physics is this? How were they able to identify human parts when metal melts at temperatures far beyond that necessary to reduce flesh to nothing buy carbon ash?
When airplanes crash in other locations, every piece of the plane can be found, even if it is in small pieces. Pieces of the passengers and their luggage can also be found. How is it that when a plane hits the Pentagon, everything suddenly changes and the plane is liquefied?
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| i really do feel sorry for you people :stongue: |
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| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i really do feel sorry for you people :stongue: |
If you have nothing objective to say then troll some other forums with your tripe.
As regards the condition of the hemispheres themselves, an alert state of the nervous system is absolutely essential for the formation of a new conditioned reflex. If the dog is mostly drowsy during the experiments, the establishment of a conditioned reflex becomes a long and tedious process, and in extreme cases is impossible to accomplish. The hemispheres must, however, be free from any other nervous activity, and therefore in building up a new conditioned reflex it is important to avoid foreign stimuli which, falling upon the animal, would cause other reactions of their own. If this is not attended to, the establishment of a conditioned reflex is very difficult, if not impossible.
Conditioned Reflexes: An Investigation of the Physiological Activity of the Cerebral Cortex
Ivan P. Pavlov
Bell rings.
Dog responds. |
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