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Do you believe there is a U.S. government cover-up surrounding 9/11? (pg. 279)
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| {b.s.e.} |
LOL Speaking of WTC Lies, there is no such thing as the "104 Impact Witnesses'. Your arrogance and reliance on debunker webpages has brought you to an interesting end in credibility. Why don't you just shut up and concede? :)
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http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
Here is a great resource for you all to use. It consists of a breakdown of all witnesses in relation to what they said versus what they actually saw or could have seen. I based this analysis on what was actually printed. Without direct confirmation and scrutinizing of witness claims and point of view locations, they are merely static words floating around left to imply an impact.
Seeing plane + smoke/fireball DOES NOT equal actually witnessing an impact.
Seeing/descrbing a plane + reporters deduction/sensationalizing about witness account DOES NOT equal actually witnessing an impact.
Speaking with witnesses and clarifying the details of their account is the ONLY way to get answers.
Some witnesses are genuine and some are not. Some are real people with real lives who were confused and convinced by the attacks in New York while some are deep cover opertives or assets implicitly planting bogus information to make us chase our tails or delicately dancing between ambigous statements.
Some merely deduced an impact while some either arrived after the event or simply said they were there and outright lied about an impact. The fact that they "saw a plane versus a missile" is what their account was originally touted for by skeptics but when accepted that there was a plane and scrutinized against the north side flight path and the fact that the local topography does not allow a complete view of the event, most of the accounts do not hold water when analyzed.
I am open to debate on this matter and tried to remain as fair and accurate as I possibly could. If I missed anyone, please let me know. If you disagree with any of this witness designations, then please let me know. However, you should be warned that I will ask you for evidence or logic to support your argument ie pictures and other supporting factors.
Only saw plane (possibly from far away location), could not see pentagon, light poles or impact, either deduced or are lying OR do not directly mention or CONFIRM seeing an impact:
Susan Carroll (on metro platform at Reagan National)
Allen Cleveland (on subway metro train at Reagan National)
Meseidy Rodriguez (metro platform at Reagan National)
Steve Snaman (Ft McNair)
Michael Tinyk (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT US Patent and Trademark office in Crystal City)
Greta van Susteren (on the roof of a parking structure at National Airport)
Clyde A. Vaughn, Army Brig. Gen. (Saw the plane loitering over Georgetown, DC, )
Don Chauncey (small commuer plane)
Henry Ticknor (Rt 50, only saw plane for a moment-mad that people misrepresent)
Michael James -POV confirmed (Columbia Pike curve, trees blocked view)
Isabel James -POV confirmed (Columbia Pike curve, trees blocked view)
Mark Eastman
D.S. Khavkin (saw small commerical craft from back on Columbia Pike in highrise)
Allan Wallace (ran when plane came in, admits DID NOT see impact)
Mark Skipper (ran when plane came in, admits DID NOT see impact)
Steve Eiden (out on 395 loop)
Capt Steve McCoy (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT at 395 and Glebe Rd)
Andrea Kaiser (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT at 395 and Glebe Rd)
Ann Krug (Hoffman-Boston Elementary)
Mary Lyman
Oscar Martinez (saw plane, claims he only heard it hit, no confirmation to seeing)
Kirk Milburn (deceased, died in Motorcycle accident-CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT, could not see impact or light poles)
Linda Plaisted
Alfred S. Regnery (watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers)
Joseph Royster
Darb Ryan, Vice Admiral
Elizabeth Smiley
Steve Snaman
Dewey Snavely, Sgt.
Levi Stephens
Greta van Susteren
Phillip Sheuerman (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT, on 395, only saw plane for brief moment, did not see impact)
Phillip Thompson (does not mention seeing impact, only fireball)
Thomas J. Trapasso (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT1400 S. Barton, dubious conflicting witness and can't see Pentagon from location)
Richard Benedetto (claims he did not see impact from Rt 27)
Terry Morin (up at Navy Annex)
James Ryan (And you saw it hit the Pentagon? No, at that point it went down because I was approaching a hill.)
Darb Ryan (quote only says "when out of the corner of my eye I saw the airplane" , the writer for Aviation Week adds 'a split second before it struck'.)
Mickey Bell (did not know what had happened)
Don Scott (did not and could not see pentagon or impact, confirmed by CIT)
Ralph Banton
Michael DiPaula ("sounded like missile", reporter adds detail about plane roaring into view, not in position to make determination on impact)
Lon Rains ("sounded like a missile")
John Thurman,Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff
Daniel McAdams (only heard)
Dennis Smith (no direct confirmation of impact, may actually support flyover)
Dawn Vignola (SPOKE TO CIT IN PERSON, claimed the plane was white seemed, could not debunk north side)
David Battle
Mike Gerson
Cheryl Hammond (saw the big American Airlines plane and started running)
Dan Creed (up on Columbia Pike, no view of Pentagon or impact)
James Keglovich (no indication or CONFIRMATION that he actually saw the impact)
Aydan Kizildrgli (no indication or CONFIRMATION,writers words, his quotes do not allude to ACTUALLY seeing the impact)
Lincoln Liebner (at entrance to building in south parking lot, cannot see impact from there.-also claims plane hit helicopter which it did not)
Claims they "Saw" impact of "plane"/large airliner-were in a position to possibly confirm one:
1. Deb Anlauf (CONTACTED by CIT, would not return call)
2. Donald Bouchoux (military consultant. CONTACTED by CIT, spoke with and left message with son, would not return call)
3. Mike Walter (had dinner with CIT)
4. Sean Boger (CONFIRMED the north side, impact deduced we believe)
5. Pam Bradley (unconfirmed account/witness)
6. Hugh "Tim" Timmerman (Dawn Vignola's roomate, unavailable for comment)
7. James R. Cissell
8. Daryl Donley
9. Bobby Eberle (came forward well after the event, Jeff Gannon's boss)
10. Penny Elgas
11. Mary Ann Owens
12. Scott Perry
13. Frank Probst (CONTACTED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
14Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (claims plane lowered landing gear and hit light poles with landing gear)
15. G. T. Stanley (unconfirmed name/witness)
16. Steve Storti
17. Carla Thompson (unconfirmed name/witness)
18. Dave Winslow, AP Radio reporter (CONTACTED by CIT, did not return call)
19. Terrance Kean (Unreachable)
20. Dave Marra (dubious, questionable witness-claims plane cartwheeled into building)
21. Mark Petitt (VERY dubious account)
22. Aziz El Hallou (Debunked lying witness, proven to be at Navy Annex)
223. Robert A Leonard(driving northbound in the HOV lanes on I-395; Pentagon is on the left. The plane vanished, absorbed by the building, and there was a slight pause. Then a huge fireball rose into the sky.")
24. Mitch Mitchell, Ret. Army Col., CBS news correspondent (account is problematic)
25. Mike Dobbs (according to writer, not confirmed, not his own words)
26. Joe Harrington (seems like it made impact before Wedge-in South Parking lot)
27. Rick Renzi (corrupt congressman, listed as law student, has plane "dive bombing", very peculiar account)
"Saw" a plane & impact from far away, but DID NOT see a second plane/jet shadowing/chasing and veering away as the impact happened:
28. Steve Anderson, USA Today Editor (saw impact from USA Today building)
29.Don Wright (a commuter plane, two-engined )
30.Don Chauncey (small commuter plane)
Steve Gerard (saw small corporate jet with no markings) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
31. Lesley Kelly, Cmdr. U.S. Navy (Ret.) (near impossible to see the plane approach from DC)
32. James Robbins (a national-security analyst & NRO contributor for National Review, William F Buckley (CIA) publication saw silver flash, "diving in an unrecoverable angle")
Ken Ford (prop plane flying up river from National)
33.Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter
(30 TOTAL WHO COULD HAVE SEEN OR CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN IMPACT)
Claims plane an American Airlines:
Richard Benedetto
James R. Cissell
Dennis Clem
Mike Dobbs, Marine Cmdr.
Penny Elgas
Cheryl Hammond
Joe Harrington
William Lagasse (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT)
Lincoln Leibner, Army Major
Elaine McCusker
Mitch Mitchell, Ret. Army Col. CBS news correspondent
Terry Morin, Former USMC aviator (CONTACTED by CIT, would not return phone calls)
Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter
Vin Narayanan (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
John O'Keefe (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Steve Riskus
Mike Walter
Joel Sucherman (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Frank Probst (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
James Ryan
Steve Storti
Tim Timmerman
Michael Tinyk (dark orange and blue) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT)
Alan Wallace (white airplane with orange and blue trim)
Ian Wyatt
Afework Hagos (according to writer)(CONTACT ATTEMPTED by CIT)
(25 total)
Saw a "silver plane":
Allen Cleveland
Albert Hemphill
James Mosely (silver flash?)
Steve Patterson
James S. Robbins
Madelyn Zackem (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Lt. Col O'Brien(CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by PFT/CIT)
(7 total)
Saw "the/a plane", not identified as AA:
Steve Anderson
Deb Anlauf
Sean Boger (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Donald Bouchoux
Pam Bradley
Mark Bright
Omar Campo
Susan Carroll
James R. Cissell
Dan Creed
Daryl Donley
Bob Dubill
Bobby Eberle
Steve Eiden
Bruce Elliott, Colonel
Kim Flyler
Kat Gaines
Fred Gaskins
Steven Gerard
Afework Hagos
Eugenio Hernandez
Fred Hey
Michael James
Andrea Kaiser
Terrance Kean
James Keglovich
Lesley Kelly, Cmdr. U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Aydan Kizildrgli
Ann Krug
Robert A. Leonard
Mary Lyman
David Marra
Oscar Martinez
Stephen McGraw (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
William Middleton Sr.
Kirk Milburn
Mary Ann Owens
Zinovy Pak
Scott Perry
Christine Peterson
Linda Plaisted
Alfred S. Regnery
Rick Renzi
Meseidy Rodriguez
Joseph Royster
Darb Ryan, Vice Admiral
Don Scott (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt.
Elizabeth Smiley
Steve Snaman
Dewey Snavely, Sgt.
G. T. Stanley
Levi Stephens
Greta van Susteren
Shari Taylor
Carla Thompson
Phillip Thompson
Thomas J. Trapasso (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Rodney Washington
Only heard plane:
Ralph Banton
Michael DiPaula ("sounded like missile", reporter adds detail about wing)
Lon Rains ("sounded like a missile")
John Thurman,Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff
Daniel McAdams
Heard impact/explosions:
Lisa Burgess
Michael DiPaula
John Thurman, Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff
Saw something else that does NOT support official story:
Stuart Artman (plane over/near Wash. monument)
Joseph Candelario (plane flying towards White House, sharp turn to Pentagon)
Kim Dent(shadow of plane from Navy Annex)
Ken Ford (prop plane flying up river from National)
Kat Gaines (plane striking telephone poles from 110)
Steve Gerard (saw small corporate jet with no markings) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Joe Hurst ( saw it go overhead, Oval Room restaurant at Lafayette Square? DC)
Lesley Kelly, Cmdr.U.S. Navy(Ret.)(saw it descend from office in downtown DC)
D.S. Khavkin (saw small commerical craft)
Elaine McCusker (saw AA over 14th street bridge)
Steve Patterson (small silver 8-12 passenger commuter plane)
Dennis Smith (tail section before impact from Pentagon Courtyard)
Clyde A. Vaughn, Army Brig. Gen. (Saw the plane loitering over Georgetown, DC,
Don Wright (a commuter plane, two-engined-strange behavior when questioned about direction )
Omar Campo (saw white with blue on the bottom plane, United plane)
Michael Kelly (plane flying over him while he is on the 14th st bridge, debris falling on the 14th st bridge/395, sounded like small plane)
Harry Gold (saw plane "off the registered course over the Potomac" and believes it made a dive over Rosslyn)
Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (unconfirmed account-claims landing gear was down and hit light pole)
Sgt. Chadwick Brooks CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT-saw champagne off white plane on north side of Citgo, admits he could have been fooled and he stands by where he saw the plane)
Levi Stephens (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT-saw plane on north side of Citgo, claims did not look like and was not an American Airlines aircraft)
Robert Turcios (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CITsaw plane on north side of Citgo, claims did not look like and was not an American Airlines aircraft)
Could see details of plane ie passengers:
Daryl Donley
Steve Eiden
James R. Cissell
Kim Flyler
Claims Saw it clip light pole:
Wanda Ramey (unconfirmed account)
Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (unconfirmed account-claims landing gear was down and hit light pole)
Lloyd England (CONTACTED/INTERVIEWED by CIT)
Afework Hagos (unconfrimed account-deduced? Lying?)
Mike Walter (has since changed story)
Listed or mistaken as witnesses but actually nowhere near the pentagon at the time of the attack nor did they see anything
Don Fortunato
Lee Evey
Tom Hovis
Jack Singleton
Saw plane on north side of Citgo or headed towards north side of Citgo
Sgt William Lagasse
Sgt Chadwick Brooks
Robert Turcios
Levi Stephens
Sean Boger
Ed Paik
Amy Hart (according to Steve Ross)
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:wtf: A good ol' pwning brightens the dreariest of November days. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
pkc ... you can be a smart guy at times, but here you lost your dam mind. For the last ing time, jetliners DONT LEAVE trails at GROUND LEVEL. End of story. Photos speak for themselves. Get over it.
I'll get back to this thread maybe later, had enough time feeding trolls ... |
Learned enough from the first billy goats, eh? :wtf: |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Seeing plane + smoke/fireball DOES NOT equal actually witnessing an impact.
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Ok but what about seeing a plane + smoke/fireball + thousands of chunks of plane and a huge hole in the building?
Not even going to debate the fact that any eyewitness testimony that does not agree with your crackpot ideals is automatically a government agent of dissent...... |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
Ok but what about seeing a plane + smoke/fireball + thousands of chunks of plane and a huge hole in the building?
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Uh, twatsie? I didn't write that composition, it was taken from pilotsfor911truth.org. It was posted in response to PKCWastelin's post containing the false list of impact eyewitnesses; and what I did was juxtapose it with much more in depth list.
Why are you even bumping this thread if you have nothing relevant to offer? I'm not sure whether I should be amused or disappointed.
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Not even going to debate the fact that any eyewitness testimony that does not agree with your crackpot ideals is automatically a government agent of dissent...... |
[You're] not even going to construct proper sentences, either. You're more of an agent of descent, lad. |
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| colonelcrisp |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
Uh, twatsie? I didn't write that composition, it was taken from pilotsfor911truth.org. It was posted in response to PKCWastelin's post containing the false list of impact eyewitnesses; and what I did was juxtapose it with much more in depth list.
Why are you even bumping this thread if you have nothing relevant to offer? I'm not sure whether I should be amused or disappointed.
[You're] not even going to construct proper sentences, either. You're more of an agent of descent, lad. |
This thread has been bumped over and over again by truther's who have yet to present any new evidence, or any evidence for that matter, to back up their claims. |
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| {b.s.e.} |
| quote: | Originally posted by colonelcrisp
This thread has been bumped over and over again by truther's who have yet to present any new evidence, or any evidence for that matter, to back up their claims. |
That being said -which wasn't saying much!- don't both bumping it again. :gsmile:
Or, really,(in all fairness), please feel free to come forward with whatever pressing knowledge you have for me and the rest of the "Truthers". I'd prefer that this thread disappeared, but if you feel like lighting the torch that Wastelin sneezed out, I implore you to go on and fight the 'good' fight. lol
Ya dope, ya dig!? :wtf: |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
That being said -which wasn't saying much!- don't both bumping it again. :gsmile:
Or, really,(in all fairness), please feel free to come forward with whatever pressing knowledge you have for me and the rest of the "Truthers". I'd prefer that this thread disappeared, but if you feel like lighting the torch that Wastelin sneezed out, I implore you to go on and fight the 'good' fight. lol
Ya dope, ya dig!? :wtf: |
Hint: Nothing you present is anything which will convict anyone in a court of law. Ever thought about that one? Oh, I forgot, the courts are a tool of the New World Order conspiracy...:stongue: |
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| culorut |
| quote: | | Hint: Nothing you present is anything which will convict anyone in a court of law. Ever thought about that one? Oh, I forgot, the courts are a tool of the New World Order conspiracy... |
Nobody said it was ever going to end up in court you idiot. George and Dick will probably never be tried for being the war criminals they are either and every last person knows they are.
The whole point is that everyone learns what really transpired on 9/11 by spreading information that will never be passed down from the same people who are actually there to hide it. I could not give a rats ass what some government hired team of bull feeds the public.
You don't need a court, a 9/11 omission report, FOX, CNN or a fairy tale "official story" to tell you what really happened. All you need is some common sense for fuk sakes.
:disbelief |
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| culorut |
Hits the nail fuking hard.
| quote: | | "I would like to suggest to you emphatically that the 9-11 truth movement is the most pressing issue of the peace & justice movement today. Here is why. 9-11 has been used to justify "endless war" and a continual rollback in civil liberties that seems to have no end in sight. Yet, 9-11 remains the least examined tragedy in modern American history. Americans would have never agreed to the last two wars and the Patriot Act's disturbing policy . . . had it not been for 9-11.... I fear that if the underlying issues of 9-11 truth are not demanded, that Iraq may be but a flame on an ocean of gasoline that may be used to ignite war after war after war. We cannot, as a peace & justice movement only address the flames. We must look at the fuel being used to justify the flames of war and repression at home and abroad. We must look deeply at the events leading up to, on and since 9-11. We must demand full 9-11 truth." - Ed Asner |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Nobody said it was ever going to end up in court you idiot. George and Dick will probably never be tried for being the war criminals they are either and every last person knows they are. |
Exactly, your bull of a theory can't even get anyone convicted of any crimes. You are a ing idiot.
| quote: | | The whole point is that everyone learns what really transpired on 9/11 by spreading information that will never be passed down from the same people who are actually there to hide it. I could not give a rats ass what some government hired team of bull feeds the public. |
Yea, the whole point of your theory is the government is evil and anything that contradicts this assumption must be part of the evil conspiracy.
| quote: | | You don't need a court, a 9/11 omission report, FOX, CNN or a fairy tale "official story" to tell you what really happened. All you need is some common sense for fuk sakes. |
Ok, then in that case, you don't need evidence to convict someone of murder. We'll just use common sense to send people to jail! Common sense? :rolleyes: Common sense said the earth revolved around the sun, dickwad...:rolleyes: |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by culorut
Hits the nail fuking hard. |
There's no doubt 9/11 was used as a pretext for war crimes. But that doesn't prove it was purposefully carried out by our own government. |
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