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The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 107)
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| shaolin_Z |
Here's an interesint article about Christian fundamentalist in America and Zionism:
Washington Report, December 1988, Page 31
Israeli Extremists and Christian Fundamentalists: The Alliance
By Grace Halsell
At the time I began my research for my book Prophecy and Politics, I discovered the average American I met in Washington, DC, and New York was not interested in TV evangelists and their link to Israel. Neither were book editors. I went to 25 top editors in New York with my book idea on religion and politics. Michael Korda of Simon and Schuster was typical. "Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Who is interested in those crazies?"
By the time my book came out those "crazies" were on the front page of every American newspaper and on every news channel. Of course, I didn't give them this instant fame, which extended throughout the world. Two of them earned it themselves by being in the middle of scandals.
The press told us that Jim Baker had committed adultery and that Jimmy Swaggart regularly visited a prostitute. A fellow marine said Pat Robertson never had to dodge bullets in Korea because he had used his father's influence as a senator to escape front line duty. But almost everyone ignored the biggest scandal of all: the peculiar mixture of prophecy and politics professed by these and other Christian Zionists.
The Christian Zionists Message
What is the message of the Christian Zionist? Simply stated it is this: Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.
"Never mind what Israel does," say the Christian Zionists. "God wants this to happen." This includes the invasion of Lebanon, which killed or injured an estimated 100,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, most of them civilians; the bombing of sovereign nations such as Iraq; the deliberate, methodical brutalizing of the Palestinians—breaking bones, shooting children, and demolishing homes; and the expulsion of Palestinian Christians and Muslims from a land they have occupied for over 2,000 years.
My premise in Prophecy and Politics is that Christian Zionism is a dangerous and growing segment of Christianity, which was popularized by the 19th-century American Cyrus Scofield when he wrote into a Bible his interpretation of events in history. These events all centered around Israel—past, present, and future. His Scofield Bible is today the most popular of the reference Bibles.
Scofield said that Christ cannot return to earth until certain events occur: The Jews must return to Palestine, gain control of Jerusalem and rebuild a temple, and then we all must engage in the final, great battle called Armageddon. Estimates vary, but most students of Armageddon theology agree that as a result of these relatively recent interpretations of Biblical scripture, 10 to 40 million Americans believe Palestine is God's chosen land for the Jews.
Has the power of the Christian Zionists diminished?
I do not think so. Rather, we are seeing how the Christian Zionists, motivated by religious beliefs, are working hand in glove with politically motivated, militant Jewish Zionists around the world. It is the Christian support of Zionism that emboldens Zionists to believe they can dictate to relatively weak and dependent countries such as Austria, whom they may choose as their president.
It is the Christian support of Zionism that allows Manuel Noriega to remain the strongman in Panama, misusing his power, regardless of what harm he causes to the United States, his neighbors, and his people.
It is the Christian support of Zionism that enables the militant Israelis to take over Palestinian homes surrounding the Al-Aqsa mosque in pursuit of their well-documented plan to destroy Jerusalem's most holy Islamic site, sacred to a billion Muslims around the world—one-fifth of humanity.
Christian Zionists and the Iran-Contra Scandal
Remarkably,it was this Christian cult of Israel that brought us the Iran contra scandal, perhaps the most self-destructive act in the history of the United States. Marine Col. Oliver North, the perpetrator of this misguided series of actions, is a Christian Zionist. A born-again charismatic figure, he endeared himself to the militant Israeli Zionists who plotted Iran-contra. "He is more Israeli," said one Jewish general, "than we Israelis." This is often the case. In his zealotry, the Christian Zionist can become more Zionist, more militant, than the Jewish Zionist.
In the Iran-contra hearings, Sen. James McClure (R-ID) explained to North that the US had a stated policy of neutrality in the Iran-Iraq war. That policy differed radically from Israel's policy of selling arms to Iran. Yes, agreed North, the two policies were not the same. The question, to which McClure's efforts yielded no response, then becomes: Why would the US forego its American policy to pursue Israeli policy?
The answer, unfortunately, lies in the belief system of Christian Zionists: They believe that what Israel wants is what God wants. Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable to give the green light to whatever it is Israel wants and then conceal this from the American people. Anything, including lies, theft, even murder, is justified as long as Israel wants it.
Another perfect example of a Christian Zionist is Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-HI). Throughout the hearings on the Iran-contra scandal, the Hawaiian kept the focus on the contras and steered determinedly clear of any criticism of Israel. If, in answer to questions, witnesses sought to explain the seminal and continuing role of Israel, Inouye abruptly broke off the line of questioning that had led the hearings to this unwanted destination.
Despite the political problems created by its lay practitioners and the scandals that rocked some of its TV ministries, this belief system—this cult of Israel—has not been diminished.
Indeed, I hold that Christian Zionism threatens not just the lives of Palestinians and other Arabs, but the very existence of the United States. Because of the cult of Israel, we have become a nation that does not have its own Middle East policy, but the policy the government of Israel tells us to have.
Despite the terrifying aspects of the alliance of militant Christians with militant Jewish Zionists, I find some encouraging developments. In my visits to colleges, clubs, and churches around the country, I have found strong support for the message and warning in Prophecy and Politics. It has come not only from liberal congregations, but from across the whole spectrum of Christianity, including those Christians who call themselves fundamentalists. These supporters see Christ as the bearer to humanity of God's message of peace, brotherhood, love, and reconciliation. These Christians do not endorse either the cult of Israel or its killIngs and beatings of Palestinians.
I have found many such Christians in my frequent visits to my home state of Texas. There and all over this slowly-awakening land of ours, I have found a small but increasing number of ministers and lay people who are deeply alarmed by the cult of Israel and willing to stand up and speak out about it. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| wow these in idiots are more ed in the head then Al Quada, they should all get blown up imo. |
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| shaolin_Z |
| yup, they're pretty damn crazy alright |
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| shaolin_Z |
:whip: that's outrageous, but pretty typical of IDF
he must have been a terrorist:rolleyes:
no wait, he wasn't even palestinian, it must have been an accident!:rolleyes:
Israel is doing a very good job of pissing the world off, IDF killing innocent civilian(including young children and women), peace activists and media ppl |
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| Abhay |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Israel doesn't want peace. It wants palestinian land exclusively for jews. |
GOod lord....
Your Texan too?????
I'm surprised you haven't shot urself in the head. How can you be surrounded by the people in the same state as you, and not want to kill them, or urself? |
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| Abhay |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Here's an interesint article about Christian fundamentalist in America and Zionism:
Washington Report, December 1988, Page 31
Israeli Extremists and Christian Fundamentalists: The Alliance
By Grace Halsell
At the time I began my research for my book Prophecy and Politics, I discovered the average American I met in Washington, DC, and New York was not interested in TV evangelists and their link to Israel. Neither were book editors. I went to 25 top editors in New York with my book idea on religion and politics. Michael Korda of Simon and Schuster was typical. "Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? Who is interested in those crazies?"
By the time my book came out those "crazies" were on the front page of every American newspaper and on every news channel. Of course, I didn't give them this instant fame, which extended throughout the world. Two of them earned it themselves by being in the middle of scandals.
The press told us that Jim Baker had committed adultery and that Jimmy Swaggart regularly visited a prostitute. A fellow marine said Pat Robertson never had to dodge bullets in Korea because he had used his father's influence as a senator to escape front line duty. But almost everyone ignored the biggest scandal of all: the peculiar mixture of prophecy and politics professed by these and other Christian Zionists.
The Christian Zionists Message
What is the message of the Christian Zionist? Simply stated it is this: Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.
"Never mind what Israel does," say the Christian Zionists. "God wants this to happen." This includes the invasion of Lebanon, which killed or injured an estimated 100,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, most of them civilians; the bombing of sovereign nations such as Iraq; the deliberate, methodical brutalizing of the Palestinians—breaking bones, shooting children, and demolishing homes; and the expulsion of Palestinian Christians and Muslims from a land they have occupied for over 2,000 years.
My premise in Prophecy and Politics is that Christian Zionism is a dangerous and growing segment of Christianity, which was popularized by the 19th-century American Cyrus Scofield when he wrote into a Bible his interpretation of events in history. These events all centered around Israel—past, present, and future. His Scofield Bible is today the most popular of the reference Bibles.
Scofield said that Christ cannot return to earth until certain events occur: The Jews must return to Palestine, gain control of Jerusalem and rebuild a temple, and then we all must engage in the final, great battle called Armageddon. Estimates vary, but most students of Armageddon theology agree that as a result of these relatively recent interpretations of Biblical scripture, 10 to 40 million Americans believe Palestine is God's chosen land for the Jews.
Has the power of the Christian Zionists diminished?
I do not think so. Rather, we are seeing how the Christian Zionists, motivated by religious beliefs, are working hand in glove with politically motivated, militant Jewish Zionists around the world. It is the Christian support of Zionism that emboldens Zionists to believe they can dictate to relatively weak and dependent countries such as Austria, whom they may choose as their president.
It is the Christian support of Zionism that allows Manuel Noriega to remain the strongman in Panama, misusing his power, regardless of what harm he causes to the United States, his neighbors, and his people.
It is the Christian support of Zionism that enables the militant Israelis to take over Palestinian homes surrounding the Al-Aqsa mosque in pursuit of their well-documented plan to destroy Jerusalem's most holy Islamic site, sacred to a billion Muslims around the world—one-fifth of humanity.
Christian Zionists and the Iran-Contra Scandal
Remarkably,it was this Christian cult of Israel that brought us the Iran contra scandal, perhaps the most self-destructive act in the history of the United States. Marine Col. Oliver North, the perpetrator of this misguided series of actions, is a Christian Zionist. A born-again charismatic figure, he endeared himself to the militant Israeli Zionists who plotted Iran-contra. "He is more Israeli," said one Jewish general, "than we Israelis." This is often the case. In his zealotry, the Christian Zionist can become more Zionist, more militant, than the Jewish Zionist.
In the Iran-contra hearings, Sen. James McClure (R-ID) explained to North that the US had a stated policy of neutrality in the Iran-Iraq war. That policy differed radically from Israel's policy of selling arms to Iran. Yes, agreed North, the two policies were not the same. The question, to which McClure's efforts yielded no response, then becomes: Why would the US forego its American policy to pursue Israeli policy?
The answer, unfortunately, lies in the belief system of Christian Zionists: They believe that what Israel wants is what God wants. Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable to give the green light to whatever it is Israel wants and then conceal this from the American people. Anything, including lies, theft, even murder, is justified as long as Israel wants it.
Another perfect example of a Christian Zionist is Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-HI). Throughout the hearings on the Iran-contra scandal, the Hawaiian kept the focus on the contras and steered determinedly clear of any criticism of Israel. If, in answer to questions, witnesses sought to explain the seminal and continuing role of Israel, Inouye abruptly broke off the line of questioning that had led the hearings to this unwanted destination.
Despite the political problems created by its lay practitioners and the scandals that rocked some of its TV ministries, this belief system—this cult of Israel—has not been diminished.
Indeed, I hold that Christian Zionism threatens not just the lives of Palestinians and other Arabs, but the very existence of the United States. Because of the cult of Israel, we have become a nation that does not have its own Middle East policy, but the policy the government of Israel tells us to have.
Despite the terrifying aspects of the alliance of militant Christians with militant Jewish Zionists, I find some encouraging developments. In my visits to colleges, clubs, and churches around the country, I have found strong support for the message and warning in Prophecy and Politics. It has come not only from liberal congregations, but from across the whole spectrum of Christianity, including those Christians who call themselves fundamentalists. These supporters see Christ as the bearer to humanity of God's message of peace, brotherhood, love, and reconciliation. These Christians do not endorse either the cult of Israel or its killIngs and beatings of Palestinians.
I have found many such Christians in my frequent visits to my home state of Texas. There and all over this slowly-awakening land of ours, I have found a small but increasing number of ministers and lay people who are deeply alarmed by the cult of Israel and willing to stand up and speak out about it. |
You know, I've been doing sniffing around, and there's a lot of really cool Jews out there, who are willing to oppose the actions of their own government. DEspite KNOWING that their's is a race that has huge amounts of pressure on then. Everyone wants tehm dead, or off their land. Poor Jews... :-(. THey strive so hard, to finally get an "Israel", that they've been fantasising about for thousands of years.
WEll...
On the other hand, with the attitudes that some of them have and media articles such as the one i've quoted. It's no wonder everyone wants to kill them.
Heh.... no matter how hard I try, i can never take one side to such arguements.... I always end up neutral and arguing for both... :p |
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| Abhay |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
:whip: that's outrageous, but pretty typical of IDF
he must have been a terrorist:rolleyes:
no wait, he wasn't even palestinian, it must have been an accident!:rolleyes:
Israel is doing a very good job of pissing the world off, IDF killing innocent civilian(including young children and women), peace activists and media ppl |
Can you explain what "christian Zionism" is to me? |
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| shaolin_Z |
| No, I'm not a Texan. I'm going to college here at U of Texas Austin. I used to live in Newark, CA (in the SF Bay Area), and several other places before that, but I'm definetly going back to California once I graduate. "Y'all" thought I was a Texas?:p Austin a nice place , though we do have our share of rednecks here too. |
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| Abhay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Escobar
You would be right if these Palestinian fighters were uniformed fighters attacking uniformed personnel on the Israeli side. This is how a war works. I this case however, we have Israeli army targetting Palestinian Militia and this Militia targetting Israeli civilians. with that in mind it is easy to understand the desperation of the Israelis and their will to fight for survival. The army has a duty to protect its citizens.
Bu the fact remains that these Palestinian terrorists do not follow the leadership of the PA, and that they actively target woman and children (civilians).
There is no reason to Label Israel terrorist. Israel is fighting a savage war against terrorism. While doing so, Israel goes to extremes trying to prevent civilian casualities. As you are well aware, terrorists hide amongst the population,. which makes the job even harder.
Considering the current situation, and applying it to any other country, civilian casualities would have been at least 10 times worst.
Israel as a democracy, cherishes and values life...Arab or Jewish. This is much more then can be said about the Palestinian side. Incitment is rampant and the hate for jews is something taught at school from a young age. They are raising a nation of terrorists and all you can do is criticize Israel for defending its citizens.
You see...I for one, believe that if the Palestinians took a totally different approach....a peacefull one, things would be quite different. Look at what happened with Syria...that is the true power of the people's voice....not terror.
When one resorts to killing inocent civilians to achieve a goal, he has lost all credibility in my book.
Israel with all its might could level the territoris with one swift move...
After all the rockets yesterday and no retaliation, I think it is fair to say that Isral is more then ready and willing to give peace a try...(again). You cannot say the same about the Palestinians. |
I have to say, i half agree with you on teh killing civilians thing. But think abotu this:
WHilst terrorism might be the direct killing off of civilians, war is not much different. Even if you try to claim your having a "clean" war, like the US does( well, atleast the TRY, unlike some ing nations).... You're gonna have cassualties.
In conventional war, your bombing a countries' infrastructure. You may as well just be killing civilians. What that means is taht your killing the economy. NOthing can function.
In that situation, you loose production ability. People loose jobs. The government can't afford to feed everyone without work. FOod prices hit the ing roof. Resources are diverted to making ing Tanks and GUns, instead of food, water, medicine, and shelter. Hence, poverty, and famine (such as many places in Africa, due to tribal wars and ing warlords) is ripe. I'll SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU:
I-N-N-O-C-C-E-N-T P-E-O-P-L-E D-I-E
even if they opposed the war (sorry hippies)
MY point is this:
your still attacking civilians in conventional war... Just indirectly... IN the end, your attacking a "country" a country CONSISTS of people. In conventional war, your attacking "civilian people" not "civilians". In terrorism, your killing a few innocents. You only dishelve the conomy if your REALLY SUCCESSFUL, and pull off a 911.
I'm not saying one is better than the other. Both are horrid.
But no-one can say conventional war is "better" than "terrorism" |
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| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abhay
Can you explain what "christian Zionism" is to me? |
:conf:
Did you not read that article? I didn't coin the term.
That's a really strage question btw. |
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| Cyrus King |
The zionist enitity seems reinforce the terrorism that killed this poor journalist by not finding any of the soldiers responisble for shooting him in the temple, guilty at all. Yet when people like the refusnicks do not chose to serve in the occupied territories... they are "EVVVVVVVVVVIL"
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...483320EBB01.htm |
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