oh noes im scurred lol. hey isnt this what the internet is for? expressing opinions?
edit: ya i thought it was a bad idea to post in this thread myself
*contemplates deletion of post*
edit edit (lol): did not see above post. and im too lazy to think right now, but their moving Israeli settlers right now out of the gaza strip in order to give the land to terrorists to try to make them shut up. and once again it wont work.
yarzan
out of curiousity, what is false here?
quote:
Oslo - Agreements and Reality
Despite decades of brutal terrorist war conducted by PLO against Israelis and Jews, Israel opened negotiations in hope that ever-lasting peace can be achieved in Middle East. In an atmosphere of global euphoria, a peace accord was signed in Oslo (Date). Rabin and Peres shook hands with Arafat, and all three were awarded Nobel Peace Price. The world, with tears in its eyes, was ready to shower billions of dollars on the fledging Palestinian Autonomy. The visions of a new Middle East that will be as politically stable as European Union, and as economically viable as Asian Tiger were abound.
The reality was very different. Arafat was not bashful in revealing his true intentions. In a speech at a mosque in Johannesburg in May 1994, Arafat declared, in English,
"I don't consider the agreement any more than the agreement which was signed by our prophet Mohammed at Quraish".
Arafat was referring to the famous ten year peace pact that Muslims signed with the Quraish tribe at Hudaibyia. The tribe was crushed two years later when Muslim force gained enough strength. Arafat was not kidding.
The Oslo agreement promised "to live in peaceful coexistence, mutual dignity and security". Arafat pledged to "turn the lives of the infidels into hell". Oslo assured that "except for the Palestinian Police and the Israeli military forces, no other armed forces shall be established in the West Bank and Gaza strip". Arafat not only did nothing to dismantle Hamas, Islamic Jihad and an alphabet soup of assorted terrorist organizations, but he established a new one - Tanzim or Al Aksa Brigades which proudly claims responsibility for murdering innocent civilians. Oslo promised to ensure that "respective educational systems contribute to the peace between Israeli and Palestinian peoples". Palestinian Authority, with the help of generous donations from the European Union, has indeed revamped its education system. The new textbooks read - "treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews, and therefore one should beware of them."
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by yarzan
lol show me whats you got :) all in good times
oh noes im scurred lol. hey isnt this what the internet is for? expressing opinions?
edit: ya i thought it was a bad idea to post in this thread myself
*contemplates deletion of post*
edit edit (lol): did not see above post. and im too lazy to think right now, but their moving Israeli settlers right now out of the gaza strip in order to give the land to terrorists to try to make them shut up. and once again it wont work.
Yes moving settlers out of Gaza is a good thing, its just that this action is most likely a way to consolidate settlements in the West Bank (so until the same is done in the West Bank it probably wont work)
George Smiley
quote:
Originally posted by yarzan
out of curiousity, what is false here?
Well before I address that quote (which I shall do in my next post) I shall first address a matter of sources. The Israel Peace Initiative is hardly an unbiassed source. It is an extremely biassed source and makes no attempts to hide it. If I can make a few quotes from their mission page...
quote:
To produce a substantial improvement in support for Israel, through the education of present and future opinion leaders about the Israeli-Arab conflict.
quote:
Liaison with other communities, such as Evangelical Christians and the Indian Community, with the goal of increasing active support for Israel in these communities
And let us look for clues as to their ideology...
quote:
IPI's activities have included a series of lectures featuring the highly regarded local Middle East expert, David Meir-Levi, as well as visiting Israeli scholars. IPI is planning a lecture series with Middle East experts such as David Horowitz, Daniel Pipes, and others. IPI is planning a pro-Israel campus lecture tour and ad campaign for Northern California universities.
Well again we have the emphasis on support for Israel, but look at those names they provide...they all seem to have some relationship to a magasine called Front Page Mag , David Horowitz is the editor and Daniel Pipes along with David Meir-Levi are colomnists in that magasine. They are all avid neo-conservatives who are fanatically pro-Israel.
So forgive me if I refuse to take the quote from your previous post as anything but blind propaganda by a neo-conservative think tank whose stated aim is to muster support for Israel and create the impression that the evil Palestinians are to blame for absolutely everything...
:p
yarzan
quote:
Originally posted by George Smiley
Well before I address that quote (which I shall do in my next post) I shall first address a matter of sources. The Israel Peace Initiative is hardly an unbiassed source. It is an extremely biassed source and makes no attempts to hide it. If I can make a few quotes from their mission page...
And let us look for clues as to their ideology...
Well again we have the emphasis on support for Israel, but look at those names they provide...they all seem to have some relationship to a magasine called Front Page Mag , David Horowitz is the editor and Daniel Pipes along with David Meir-Levi are colomnists in that magasine. They are all avid neo-conservatives who are fanatically pro-Israel.
So forgive me if I refuse to take the quote from your previous post as anything but blind propaganda by a neo-conservative think tank whose stated aim is to muster support for Israel and create the impression that the evil Palestinians are to blame for absolutely everything...
:p
damn man youve got your bases covered :p :cool:
edit: i think ill quit this thread cuz i argue this crap every day and dont feel like going in a repetitive cirlce being an e-thug lol. if any comment is made towards me i probably wont answer here, but ill be glad to discuss this with anyone over AIM/MSN. kthxbye :stongue:
George Smiley
As for the quote...
quote:
Oslo - Agreements and Reality
Despite decades of brutal terrorist war conducted by PLO against Israelis and Jews, Israel opened negotiations in hope that ever-lasting peace can be achieved in Middle East. In an atmosphere of global euphoria, a peace accord was signed in Oslo (Date). Rabin and Peres shook hands with Arafat, and all three were awarded Nobel Peace Price. The world, with tears in its eyes, was ready to shower billions of dollars on the fledging Palestinian Autonomy. The visions of a new Middle East that will be as politically stable as European Union, and as economically viable as Asian Tiger were abound.
Well not too sure who thought that! But anyway...
quote:
The reality was very different. Arafat was not bashful in revealing his true intentions. In a speech at a mosque in Johannesburg in May 1994, Arafat declared, in English,
"I don't consider the agreement any more than the agreement which was signed by our prophet Mohammed at Quraish".
Arafat was referring to the famous ten year peace pact that Muslims signed with the Quraish tribe at Hudaibyia. The tribe was crushed two years later when Muslim force gained enough strength. Arafat was not kidding.
Well I'm having difficulty finding this speech (there is only one other website that contains it which is a bit dodgy seeing as I would have expected every pro-Israel group in the world to have leapt at the chance that speech would have given them) So not sure if it is correct or has been taken out of context but you tend to find a lot of Islamic rhetoric creeping into leaders speeches in the Middle East as it gives them legitimacy and support. However, whether he said it or not, he did not believe it (as he had given up the dream of fighting for the whole of British Mandate Palestine in 1973 after he realised it would be impossible and settled for the West Bank and Gaza)
quote:
The Oslo agreement promised "to live in peaceful coexistence, mutual dignity and security". Arafat pledged to "turn the lives of the infidels into hell". Oslo assured that "except for the Palestinian Police and the Israeli military forces, no other armed forces shall be established in the West Bank and Gaza strip". Arafat not only did nothing to dismantle Hamas, Islamic Jihad and an alphabet soup of assorted terrorist organizations, but he established a new one - Tanzim or Al Aksa Brigades which proudly claims responsibility for murdering innocent civilians. Oslo promised to ensure that "respective educational systems contribute to the peace between Israeli and Palestinian peoples". Palestinian Authority, with the help of generous donations from the European Union, has indeed revamped its education system. The new textbooks read - "treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews, and therefore one should beware of them."
Again, the only website that contains those speeches is the Israel Peace Initiative which leads me to suspect they have been assumed as something Arafat has said (ie thats what they think he means!)
As for doing nothing to dismantle Hamas or Islamic Jihad I fail to see how he could have. Hamas are are as strong as the largest PLO group (Fatah) and any attempts to "dismantle" Hamas would have resulted in civil war (in fact, as I said in the other thread, Fatah and Hamas have fought numerous gun battles that had nothing to do with Israel's insistance they dismantle Hamas, but everything to do with the fact they hate each other, and the PLO groups even said to the Palestinian people during the First Intifada that Hamas were dangerous and were splitting the population adn spreading seeds of hatred, again, nothing to do with Israel but cos they hate Hamas) So the PA were not able to dismantle Hamas (and they never will be just like Hizballah in Lebanon) they also dont seem to have much control over the Marxist revolutionary groups the article mentioned - Tanzim and Al-Aqsa Martyrs. That quote falls down in two places - firstly it wrongly assumes the PA = the PLO = Hamas. They dont, for a start, the PLO and Hamas hate each other. Secondly, the PA has no control over Hamas at all and any attempts to do so would result in civil war (and they also dont have much control over the other groups still active, so blaming the PA is wrong)
Secondly, and this is hilarious propaganda at its best, it doesn't actually go into what the Oslo Accord even gave the Palestinians! (If it had been Camp David we would have the usual 95% of the land etc but here we get nothing!!)
The Oslo Accords were not likely to achieve very much (especially as Hamas and PFLP/DFLP refused to accept them and carried on their campaigns against Israel) The Oslo Accord did not actually contain ANY final status issues (ie the issues most important to the Palestinians like settlements etc) Basically, the Israelis got the PA into agreeing the "land for peace" notion which meant as conditions for Palestinians had not improved, all the problems that caused this conflict in the first place that had been shifted from the Oslo discussion, meant there would be continuing violence, and hence, no land for peace! The PA came out of Oslo in control of 3 (three!)% of the occupied territories!! Can you imagine that?! 3%!! But strangely the source you quote above fails to mention the pathetic amount of land Israel gave the PA, or the fact that the major issues of contention for the Palestinians were not even discussed at Oslo. So there was no chance the Oslo accords would have delived peace and anyone who thought they would (or who still thinks they could have done) is living on another planet smoking too much crack!
articnorth
can someone in the world just resurrect the crusades and evoke all the barbarians and war mongers( huns, vandals, vikings) and kill all the sons of ishmael and saladins!!!!!!!!!!!!
ogvh5150
Just like a cop, never one when you need one. But they're a dime a dozen in the donut shop, or in this case watching tv. If they're supposed to be guarding or patrolling, then who is in the streets? Apparently the streets are safe since these kids decided that football was more important than security:
w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m
Last update - 15:05 27/05/2005 IDF troops take over Palestinian family's home to watch soccer
By Reuters
Israel Defense Forces soldiers barged into a Palestinian home and commandeered its television room so they could watch a soccer match, a military source said on Friday after a TV report on the incident.
Footage on Channel 10 TV showed broken furniture and windows in the room of the house in the West Bank city of Hebron where the television station said the troops watched Wednesday's Champions League final between AC Milan and Liverpool.
The Palestinian family living in the house said the soldiers caused the damage. The military source confirmed five soldiers entered the dwelling to view the match but said they stayed only for a few minutes and did not break anything.
Nonetheless, the source said, the commander of the squad had been suspended.
"The military takes a severe view of such incidents," the source added.
Palestinian teenager Anan al-Zrayer said he was walking down the street when soldiers asked him if his family had a television set and a satellite dish.
"I said 'yes,' and told them we don't have Israeli channels. (After they entered the house,) I gave them the remote control and they carried out a search. We were kicked into another room," he said.
Another Hebron resident said it was not the first time that soldiers had taken over Palestinian houses to watch television.
Khigaji al-Batch said about two weeks ago, 11 soldiers entered his home and stayed through the night.
"They are using our houses like a cinema," Batch said.
Israel abandons Jerusalem airport
By ANSHEL PFEFFER
The Jerusalem Airport in Atarot has been abandoned for the last few months, and any civilian, Palestinian or Israeli, can enter the site at will.
Flights out of the airfield were suspended four-and-a-half years ago, after Palestinians fired at the runways, and for most of the ensuing period it served as an IDF base.
Recently, the IDF abandoned the airport, and one of its gates has been left opened and unguarded. In three separate visits this week, The Jerusalem Post was able to enter, drive on the runways and walk through the terminal building for more than 15 minutes before one of two civilian guards noticed our presence. Despite having to patrol dozens of dunams, the guards have no vehicle or surveillance equipment.
The IDF Spokesman said that responsibility for the airfield has been transferred to the Israel Airports Authority.
The IAA spokeswoman emphatically denied that the airfield was open and unguarded. "The airfield has 24-hour security and is surrounded by an electronic fence that alerts [us to] any entrance into the field and enables the guards to summon the IDF. Only one gate is open for the use of the military in the area."
The airfield is situated at a strategic location north of Jerusalem, overlooking the Atarot industrial area and the Kalandiya checkpoint, the main crossing between Jerusalem and the West Bank. The airfield borders on the MATA plant of Israel Aircraft Industries, in charge of upgrading military aircraft.
The terminal building is totally dilapidated, and the conveyor belts and check-in desks within it are wrecked. The aircraft hangars are deserted, and the tarmac is cracked and strewn with bullet casings and rubber-coated bullets. Ironically, one of the few things to remain intact in the building is a display on the history of the Jewish settlement at Atarot.
The airfield was built by the British in 1920s. The Jewish settlement was abandoned in March 1948 during the War of Independence, following repeated attacks by Arab gangs, and came under Jordanian control after the war. Until 1967, as the Kalandiya Airport, it served mainly Arab airlines flying passengers to east Jerusalem and the West Bank.
After the Six Day War, it was renamed, but due to a boycott by the international airline pilots union, it wasn't used for international commercial flights. It remained a regional airfield used by Arkia to fly vacationers to Eilat, a small flying school and private pilots and plane owners. That didn't stop the authorities from calling it "Jerusalem International Airport" and putting up a "Welcome to Israel" sign.
In the first days of the second intifada in October 2000, Palestinians from Kalandiya and Ramallah tried repeatedly to storm the airfield but were repelled by soldiers. Following shootings toward the runways, the planes were evacuated and Arkia flights were suspended indefinitely.
Control of the airfield was transferred from the IAA to the army and over the next four years, IDF units were stationed at the terminal. The runways were used for various purposes, such as driving lessons on armored jeeps for reserve soldiers.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon raised the ire of Palestinian negotiators two years ago when he insisted on maintaining Israeli control of two main points in the West Bank around Jerusalem, the Atarot airfield and Rachel's Tomb on the way to Bethlehem. As a result, the separation fence has been built around the airfield.
Last year, international mediators proposed building a joint Israeli-Palestinian airport at Atarot, but the plan hasn't advanced beyond that.
The reduction in the number of troops in the area and the construction of the security fence on its outskirts led the army to abandon the airfield and hand over control to the IAA. The airfield, it seems, was too much of a burden for the authority and that is probably the reason it was satisfied with the lowest possible of level of security.
There are no known plans to reactivate the airfield.
Although Palestinians live in houses bordering the airfield, during the day there is no military presence there. The two guards spend the day resting in the control tower and the only sign of presence there are the spotlights which remain lit during the day and the Israeli flag flying from the tower.
Israel to free jailed Palestinians with 'blood on their hands'
By Aluf Benn and Arnon Regular, Haaretz Correspondents
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has instructed Justice Minister Tzipi Livni to prepare for the release of veteran Palestinian prisoners who have "blood on their hands." The prisoners have been jailed since before the 1993 Oslo accords and are elderly and in poor health.
Sharon informed the cabinet of this Sunday before it approved the release of 400 security prisoners, mainly those jailed for minor offenses. He will inform Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas of the decision - which is in accordance with commitments made at February's Sharm el-Sheikh summit - when they meet next week.
The PA has placed great importance on the release of veteran prisoners - Fatah activists who support Abbas and have influence in the territories.
At the same time, the defense establishment is preparing the ground for the return of those Palestinians who were exiled from Bethlehem to Europe after they holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity in 2002. They are also examining conditions for the return of family members of suicide bombers who were sent from the West Bank to the Gaza Strip.
Dozens of Palestinians imprisoned at the Ofer detention facility near Ramallah have already been informed of the intention to free them as part of the prisoner release. Among them are well-known Hamas political leaders from the West Bank and Fatah activists who were involved in shooting incidents.
Some 35 members of Fatah, Hamas and other organizations who have served two-thirds of their terms have been notified of their impending release and have been transferred from Ofer to the Ketziot facility in the Negev where the release process will be completed.
Dunya
quote:
Originally posted by yarzan
i am not gonna read thru 114 pages. I live in Israel right now, and am Israeli, and am an EVIL ZIONIST OCCUPIER HAHA!!!! we (the israeli side) has offered peace and our land hundreds of times. Its getting old! they dont want land or peace, they want bodybags, and as long as they keep attacking us, i guess we'll have to strike back in defence. oh and for all those ppl whining about palestinian kids getting killed by israeli soldiers. why arent they in school? oh thats right, cuz the schools send them out to throw rocks at the soldiers
im not saying everything israel does is right and correct, ive seen 2 israli soldiers beat up a palestinian and drag another one away for not having papers. but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, and the medias gonna love it...
Bawakasha?
What r soldiers doing in Pa streets, schools and hospitals?:rolleyes:
ps: Mi iten ve kol a haim shelha ye'afhu le ge'inom aley adamot, tembel...hehe:)
