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The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 11)
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| BadBadNeil |
Perhaps the Palestinian people need to band together and realize that the "freedom fighters" of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO and others are not really fighting for their freedom but only for the destruction of Israel. They need to realize that they like to use freedom and heaven as a ploy to lure their children into commiting suicide which instead of working for the perceived intended purpose only serves to stretch the war on longer.
The militant organizations remind me of gangs in the ghettos where they pry on people's fears and instill fear in the citizens so they don't turn to the other side. They use the poverty of the citizens to their advantage and it is to the point where Arafat and his cronies can't stand up to these gangs for they are more powerful than the heads of state. These organizations can't exist if the people don't support them, but unfortunately the people are either too naive or too afraid to do so. |
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| smokeape |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Im going to explain this to you once again for the millionth time.
How are the palestinians to quell this violence when the very people asking for it (namely israel) have destroyed the policing infrastructure, intelligence and dismantled almost all the organized force labour needed to calm this chaos down???
Israel asks the PA to end the terrorist infrastructure, yet they destroy the entity that enables the PA to control this "MOB" |
And the UN is where to bring in law and order? God almighty move it to a place where corruption, pontificating, and ineffectualism rules, like Paris, France... and put someone from a major country in charge instead of third rate Koni Annam who wields no respect outside of his office in Manhattan.
:whip:
[[[smoke]]] |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by BadBadNeil
Perhaps the Palestinian people need to band together and realize that the "freedom fighters" of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PLO and others are not really fighting for their freedom but only for the destruction of Israel. They need to realize that they like to use freedom and heaven as a ploy to lure their children into commiting suicide which instead of working for the perceived intended purpose only serves to stretch the war on longer.
The militant organizations remind me of gangs in the ghettos where they pry on people's fears and instill fear in the citizens so they don't turn to the other side. They use the poverty of the citizens to their advantage and it is to the point where Arafat and his cronies can't stand up to these gangs for they are more powerful than the heads of state. These organizations can't exist if the people don't support them, but unfortunately the people are either too naive or too afraid to do so. |
What youre failing to understand is that these "mobs" are infact wanted by the people of palestine. They are a means of resistance. These people are desensitized to deatha nd fueled by vengence, something that Israel has helped promote as well. By destroying the PA's defense force and policing structure, groups like hamas are germinated and grown out of the need for a movement of resistance. Many people in palestine want Israel destroyed... can you blame someone for thinking this way when the very machine that has brutalized their people and land continues to do so???
Im sure many Jews wished the destruction of Germany when they were in concentration camps.
When people get desperate, very extreme thoughts are expressed. |
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| Goashem |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Im going to explain this to you once again for the millionth time.
How are the palestinians to quell this violence when the very people asking for it (namely israel) have destroyed the policing infrastructure, intelligence and dismantled almost all the organized force labour needed to calm this chaos down???
Israel asks the PA to end the terrorist infrastructure, yet they destroy the entity that enables the PA to control this "MOB" |
yes i never quite understood why the hell israel was doing that (teaching arafat a lesson?) |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Im going to explain this to you once again for the millionth time.
How are the palestinians to quell this violence when the very people asking for it (namely israel) have destroyed the policing infrastructure, intelligence and dismantled almost all the organized force labour needed to calm this chaos down???
Israel asks the PA to end the terrorist infrastructure, yet they destroy the entity that enables the PA to control this "MOB" |
You know its bull
in Gaza for example, the PA security forces weren't touched, and still they did nothing.
in the West Bank they were touched only in the peak of the Intifada when horrible suicide bombing occured in Israel Daily, and there were significant intelligence facts that showed the "security forces" are collaborating with the terror organizations.
your argument is like the stupidest thing to say, because where were those security forces when israeli were blown up daily? When Israel approved the creation of those forces, it put itself in this trap you describe. |
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| mixinmusic |
| All I can say is the blaming of all the violence in Israel on the Israeli's is wrong. There are 2 sides to every story. |
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| Shakka |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Do you know how many Palestinians try to stop the IDF from utilizing state terror? EVERYONE, becuase they have no army to do it |
I keep hearing you guys say this. Do you just expect someone to up and give them an army? That's not how it works. If they would act like civilized, organized human beings instead of suicidal savages, maybe they could put together a well organized military force. Of course, then they would be closer to being bound by Geneva Conventions and the laws of war, which is probably something they don't want because it would mean abandoning their current terror tactics.
Whose fault is it that they have no military? Maybe it has to do with the fact that they teach their children to commit suicide before they're old enough to join a civilized, organized military structure? |
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| dj_ilan_yosef |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Israel asks the PA to end the terrorist infrastructure, yet they destroy the entity that enables the PA to control this "MOB" |
The PA is this "MOB"
You should know that not much has changed in the power/political structure since the PLO! |
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| Scorchio |
I Tried to read the whole thread, and I apologize in advance Palestinian your posts were too long to read so I may not be really updated in the current debate.
But I do have some words to say.
Cyrus:
Youre a ing kid, the kind of kid that pulls girls in their hair and runs, the kind that wants to have everything his way and the kind that wont take "No" as an answer.
Intelligent people (which is allot more than I can say of you) are trying to display a reasonable discussion, and all you can say is:
"Go open a new thread, this is about IDF murders..."
As a soldier, in the IDF, I know whats going on, as someone whos close friends and family were in Rafah and Gaza strip in operation Rainbow I can tell you that you have no absoloutley ing idea of what youre talking about.
Well yes I'll say it in the 1000000000000000000 time, IDF has killed innocents and thats wrong.
But its not like the palestinians are better,
hardcore_trancer:
you said and I quote:
"why is it when israel killes innocent palestinians its fighting against terror and when palestinians bomb themselves its terrorism?"
Because first as BadNeil said Israel targets intentional targets but everyone is human and human make mistakes sometimes, and innocent people are dead sometimes.
But its ing terrorism from the Palestinian side becuase walking with a bomb into a bus with old people, and young children and blowing yourself up infront of unarmed people is not a conventional way of fighting.
My cousins who were in Rafah these past days were given strict orders not to abuse and torement Palestinian civilians
IDF is one of the most moral armys in the world but becuase the news only shows you the bad parts, you think its only evil.
You didnt see the hunderds of supply trucks carrying food, blankets and medicine that IDF brought into Rafah.
And the soldier who was killed becuase he went to bring an old lady some water to drink and a sniper shot him.
Give them a real army you say?
What is Hizb Alla?, what is Tanzim?, what is Hamas?, what is Jihad?
what is Fatach?, what is El-Akza Groups?.
Are these not militant organizations? who carry M-16? (which they got from Israel btw).
Yes, they have an army, a powerful one, one that traines his soldiers to perform the fiercest acts.
Yet they continue to persue the way of blowing themselves up.
Cyrus:
You talked about FastMP3, that guy was blind, very blind.
When I once talked to him, he told me:
"why do you hate Arafat, hes a man of peace"
Right, a man of peace, a man who takes millions of dollars that the UN transferred to the Palestinians and keeps it to himself.
A man who makes his people suffer, there is no democracy there, the palestinians suffer becuase of him and if someone will resist Arafat, he will be shot, just like in Iraq in Sadam's dictatorship.
Bottom line is: the Palestinians hate Arafat and hes the one that makes them suffer, as you saw in the map that was posted, the Palestinians would have got the majority of Israel but they refused, they wanted the whole 9 yards, and they started a war and they lost and they deserve it, and all you people who cry for human rights, should look up and know that Palestine could have existed if only the arabs of 48 were willing to settle for a divided land.
I am very proud of my army, that keeps us safe, that keeps us in our home land, the land which is OURS and no one else's, and will remain this way.
Palestinians maybe in fight for their freedom, jews and Israeli's worldwide are in fight of their lives. |
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| Palestinian |
A 'moral army' is an oxymoron. And this army is an occupier which automatically makes it immoral. Very militaristic attitude you have. Weren't you people sick of living with soldiers and tanks after the holocaust? Look at yourselves now.
I'm busy these days doing my finals and getting ready to travel to the UAE. I will reply to you and continue my 1947 debate with occrider as soon as I can. |
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| Scorchio |
Spare me, I already know what you are going to write, you will state that IDF is an occupier, that Arafat is a loved leader and that the suicide bombers are warriors who fight for the freedom of the palestinian people.
Believe me, no one wants peace more than the Israeli people, you think we enjoy being sorrounded by 5 arab lands who are a constant threat in a situation of possible war?
The agreement was offered several times, if you want peace, you need to settle, tough luck if some of the territories that were once palestinian are now Israeli and Israel wont give them up, dont dig in the past, look into the future, try to think of what you can make from the lands Israel is willing to offer now, which includes the entire Gaza strip and 4 more occupied colonies.
I just hope we wont be decieved by the palestinians and they will eventually want the entire land of Israel. |
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| Palestinian |
| and you think that we enjoy being occupied and our rights and freedoms violated every day? I don't think you enjoy being surrounded but I do think that you're afraid to give sovereignty and independence to the Palestinians. It's dangerous. Our numbers are growing. As long as you occupy us, you have leverage. It's risky to let go. And the Likud fears it the most. Not because of suicide attacks, which is ridiculous to think that letting go would spur hundreds of suicide attacks, but because of our numbers and our wellbeing. Our health itself is a threat to your zionist ideals. |
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