|
The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 147)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| ogvh5150 |
I guess gulag is a foreign word to you.
Or what about Stalin:
Stalin
Joseph Stalin
As ruler of the U.S.S.R. from 1929 to 1953, Joseph Stalin was in charge of Soviet policies during the early phase of the Cold War. Born Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili on December 21, 1879, he adopted the name Stalin, which means "Man of Steel," while still a young revolutionary.
Stalin first rose to power in 1922 as secretary general of the Communist Party. Using administrative skills and ruthless maneuvering, Stalin rid himself of all potential rivals in the party, first by having many of them condemned as "deviationists," and later by ordering them executed.
To ensure his position and to push forward "socialism in one country," he put the Soviet Union on a course of crash collectivization and industrialization. An estimated 25 million farmers were forced onto state farms. Collectivization alone killed as many as 14.5 million people, and Soviet agricultural output was reduced by 25 percent, according to some estimates.
In the 1930s, Stalin launched his Great Purge, ridding the Communist Party of all the people who had brought him to power. Soviet nuclear physicist and academician Andrei Sakharov estimated that more than 1.2 million party members -- more than half the party -- were arrested between 1936 and 1939, of which 600,000 died by torture, execution or perished in the Gulag.
Joseph Stalin
In November 1927, Joseph Stalin launched his "revolution from above" by setting two extraordinary goals for Soviet domestic policy: rapid industrialization and collectivization of agriculture. His aims were to erase all traces of the capitalism that had entered under the New Economic Policy and to transform the Soviet Union as quickly as possible, without regard to cost, into an industrialized and completely socialist state.
Stalin's First Five-Year Plan, adopted by the party in 1928, called for rapid industrialization of the economy, with an emphasis on heavy industry. It set goals that were unrealistic-- a 250 percent increase in overall industrial development and a 330 percent expansion in heavy industry alone. All industry and services were nationalized, managers were given predetermined output quotas by central planners, and trade unions were converted into mechanisms for increasing worker productivity. Many new industrial centers were developed, particularly in the Ural Mountains, and thousands of new plants were built throughout the country. But because Stalin insisted on unrealistic production targets, serious problems soon arose. With the greatest share of investment put into heavy industry, widespread shortages of consumer goods occurred.
The First Five-Year Plan also called for transforming Soviet agriculture from predominantly individual farms into a system of large state collective farms. The Communist regime believed that collectivization would improve agricultural productivity and would produce grain reserves sufficiently large to feed the growing urban labor force. The anticipated surplus was to pay for industrialization. Collectivization was further expected to free many peasants for industrial work in the cities and to enable the party to extend its political dominance over the remaining peasantry.
Stalin focused particular hostility on the wealthier peasants, or kulaks. About one million kulak households (some five million people) were deported and never heard from again. Forced collectivization of the remaining peasants, which was often fiercely resisted, resulted in a disastrous disruption of agricultural productivity and a catastrophic famine in 1932-33. Although the First Five-Year Plan called for the collectivization of only twenty percent of peasant households, by 1940 approximately ninety-seven percent of all peasant households had been collectivized and private ownership of property almost entirely eliminated. Forced collectivization helped achieve Stalin's goal of rapid industrialization, but the human costs were incalculable.
Revelations from the Russian Archives
COLLECTIVIZATION AND INDUSTRIALIZATION
But I guess millions of dead Russians through collectivization means nothing. |
|
|
| DJ-Kreing^^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
I guess gulag is a foreign word to you.
Or what about Stalin:
But I guess millions of dead Russians through collectivization means nothing. |
Hi there stupid!
What the hell does Stalin's collectivization program has anything to do with this topic of the Isra-Paly conflict?
Please, you are only making a fool out of yourself by trying to act smart and posting all this random bull…
If can't come up with something meaningful that actually makes sense and can contribute to this discussion then just keep it to yourself. |
|
|
| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
But I guess millions of dead Russians through collectivization means nothing. |
a) I agree with DJ Kreing - wtf??
b) Like I said, they were not killed in factories nor were they discriminately killed.
c) nobody pretends the Gulag never happened.
Side note: Jews in USSR were persecuted and send to the Gulag like every other criminal. However the USSR did not persecute them because they were Jewish, it persecuted them because they were religious. |
|
|
| ogvh5150 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ-Kreing^^
Hi there stupid!
What the hell does Stalin's collectivization program has anything to do with this topic of the Isra-Paly conflict?
Please, you are only making a fool out of yourself by trying to act smart and posting all this random bull…
If can't come up with something meaningful that actually makes sense and can contribute to this discussion then just keep it to yourself. |
For those of us just joining in or those of you that fell of the big yellow bus:
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
ADVISERS appointed by Tony Blair after the London bombings are proposing to scrap the Jewish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is regarded as offensive to Muslims.
They want to replace it with a Genocide Day that would recognise the mass murder of Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia as well as people of other faiths.
The draft proposals have been prepared by committees appointed by Blair to tackle extremism. He has promised to respond to the plans, but the threat to the Holocaust Day has provoked a fierce backlash from the Jewish community.
Holocaust Day was established by Blair in 2001 after a sustained campaign by Jewish leaders to create a lasting memorial to the 6m victims of Hitler. It is marked each year on January 27.
Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair
There were more gentiles killed than anyone can count: |
Yoepus and I were having a conversation of sorts.
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
a) I agree with DJ Kreing - wtf??
b) Like I said, they were not killed in factories nor were they discriminately killed.
c) nobody pretends the Gulag never happened.
Side note: Jews in USSR were persecuted and send to the Gulag like every other criminal. However the USSR did not persecute them because they were Jewish, it persecuted them because they were religious. |
Are you saying they were all Jewish? Or some? I would appreciate something along the lines of census figures or official statements or similar. |
|
|
| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_ilan_yosef
WOOP ASS IDF!!!
I LOVE YOU!
WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
IF THE IDF DIDN'T HAVE SO MANY TERRORISTS TO KILL IT WOULDN'T BE AS FUN... SO A SPECIAL THANKS TO THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY WHICH HAS BRED SUCH OUTSTANDING POLITICAL KILLERS FRESH FOR THE PICKING... LINE EM UP BOYS... BUT SHOOT FOR THAT ASS - IT SEEMS THATS WHERE THEIR BRAINS ARE.
PROUNDLY SUPPORTING THE ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES!
<<<< Official IDF Website >>>> |
oh man.. look at how angry he is.. he even used caps. LOL
The arabs have their land back.. those thieves are gone ... long live Allah |
|
|
| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
oh man.. look at how angry he is.. he even used caps. LOL
The arabs have their land back.. those thieves are gone ... long live Allah |
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
:eek:
| quote: |
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
PRESS RELEASE
AI Index: EUR 45/036/2005 (Public)
News Service No: 245
12 September 2005
United Kingdom/Israel-OT: Amnesty International deplores failure to arrest Israeli war crimes suspect
Amnesty International today deplored the failure of the United Kingdom (UK) authorities to arrest Israeli army General Doron Almog when he arrived at London’s Heathrow airport yesterday, describing this as a clear violation of the UK’s obligations under both national and international law. A warrant for the general’s arrest for alleged war crimes had been issued by an English court the previous day.
The organization is now calling on the UK authorities to urge Interpol to circulate the arrest warrant and on other states party to the Geneva Conventions to cooperate with the UK in carrying out the arrest and handing over General Almog to the UK's court.
General Almog, former head of the Israeli army's Southern Command, landed at London Heathrow airport on 11 September 2005 on a flight from Tel Aviv. However, he declined to disembark from the aircraft apparently after being informed that he could be arrested. Meanwhile, London's Metropolitan Police reportedly refused to enter the plane to effect the general's arrest and then allowed him to depart from the UK for Israel on the same El Al aircraft on which he had arrived.
"The refusal to arrest a person suspected of war crimes is a clear violation both of the UK's unconditional obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention and under national law," said Amnesty International, calling for the refusal to execute the arrest warrant to be investigated.
It is difficult to believe that the police would have refused to arrest a person who had arrived in the UK on board an airliner if that person was wanted for drug-trafficking or security offences, simply because they had not passed through UK border controls, if that meant they would otherwise evade arrest.
It is not known whether the information which alerted General Almog that he would be arrested was leaked by the UK authorities or by other sources.
"The leak, whether deliberate or accidental, is a matter of serious concern and should be investigated, as it perverted the course of justice and undermined an investigation into war crimes," said the organization.
The arrest warrant against General Almog was issued by the Chief London Magistrate on 10 September under the Geneva Conventions Act 1957, on the basis of suspicion of the suspect's involvement in the destruction by the Israeli army of 59 Palestinian homes in a refugee camp in Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip on 10 January 2002.
General Almog headed the Israeli army's Southern Command, an area that includes the Gaza Strip, between December 2000 and July 2003.
The "extensive destruction...of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly" is a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention (Article 147) and, as such, a war crime.
The UK is "under the obligation to search for persons alleged to have committed, or to have ordered to be committed, such grave breaches, and shall bring such persons, regardless of their nationality, before its own courts" (Article 146). If it does not do so, it must hand such persons over for trial to another state party to the convention that is able and willing to do so. The Fourth Geneva Convention expressly forbids the UK from entering into any agreement with another state absolving itself of this obligation (Article 148).
During the past five years, since the outbreak of the intifada (Palestinian uprising) in September 2000, the Israeli army has destroyed some 4,000 Palestinian homes in the Occupied Territories, about half of them in the Gaza Strip, as well as vast areas of cultivated land, commercial properties and public buildings, water and electricity networks, and other public infrastructure. In the vast majority of cases the destruction was not justified by military necessity and was carried out unlawfully and wantonly.
The Israeli authorities have systematically failed to comply with Israel’s obligations under international law to investigate these and other human rights abuses and to bring to justice those responsible.
The UK's obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention have been given effect in domestic law via the Geneva Conventions Act 1957, which applies to: "Any person, whatever his nationality, who, whether in or outside the United Kingdom, commits, or aids, abets or procures the commission by any other person of, a grave breach of any of the scheduled conventions or the first protocol…”" [Article 1.-(1)].
Each state party to the Fourth Geneva Convention is obliged under Article 1 to "respect and ensure respect for" the Convention and should call upon Israel to open an immediate, thorough, prompt, independent and impartial investigation of the alleged grave breaches and, if there is sufficient admissible evidence, to prosecute. If Israel does not do so, each state party has the power to issue an arrest warrant under Article 146 and, if the suspect enters their territory, has the obligation to execute that arrest warrant.
Background
Since the outbreak of the Palestinian intifada (uprising) in September 2000, the Israeli army has killed more than 3,200 Palestinians, most of them unlawfully and including more than 600 children. In the same period, armed Palestinian groups have killed some 1,000 Israeli, most of them were civilians, including some 120 children, and were deliberately and unlawfully targeted. In addition, the Israeli army has carried out extensive destruction of Palestinian homes, land and other properties throughout the Occupied Territories and has continued to build and expand Israeli settlements (illegal under international law) in the West Bank and to construct a 600km fence/wall through the West Bank, cutting off Palestinian farmers from their land and further restricting the movement of Palestinians between villages.
Amnesty International has investigated a wide range of human rights abuses committed by both the Israeli and the Palestinian sides and has continued to call for all those responsible for human rights abuses, including war crimes and crimes against humanity, to be brought to justice and held accountable for their crimes.
Public Document
****************************************
For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566
Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW. web: http://www.amnesty.org
For latest human rights news view http://news.amnesty.org
AI Index: EUR 45/036/2005 12 September 2005
|
Source: Amnesty International |
|
|
| George Smiley |
Appaerently he didn't get off the plane so was unable to be arrested. Not seen the film but I think it's summat along the lines of a film called "Terminal" starring Tom Hanks... |
|
|
| shaolin_Z |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Appaerently he didn't get off the plane so was unable to be arrested.
|
Source?
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Not seen the film but I think it's summat along the lines of a film called "Terminal" starring Tom Hanks... |
:conf: Lost you there, I haven't eigther. |
|
|
| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Appaerently he didn't get off the plane so was unable to be arrested. Not seen the film but I think it's summat along the lines of a film called "Terminal" starring Tom Hanks... |
Yea technically he is an in international zone. Similar to how they would not be able to arrest him were he in the USA, Israeli, etc, embassy at the time they wished to arrest him.
They could do it, it just would create a diplomatic crisis and all and point to hypocracy by the UK abiding by one international consensus and disregarding another... |
|
|
| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by ogvh5150
Are you saying they were all Jewish? Or some? I would appreciate something along the lines of census figures or official statements or similar. |
No, I am saying some - they were in the same boat as others. And had a greater tendancy to enter the gulag due to their association with Judiasm and its often clashing ideals with soviet communism.
You can read up a bit of the history (though its real bear):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...he_Soviet_Union
Basically you will never be able to find exact numbers (just like you don't even know exactly how many perished in the gulag) as the USSR didn't serve as a prime example of scholarly record keeping.
I did find this link, though credibility can be questioned:
http://www.gunownersalliance.com/Rabbi_0166.htm
You can also read a bit about Natan Shransky a Jewish dissenter in Russian who helped expose Russia's bias against Jews:
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-sharansky-f04.htm
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004310
Regardless I don't see how this has much do do about anything. |
|
|
| MrSquirrel |
Hi Yoepus.
What happened to the mustard and the tank?
(I am trolling today figured why not troll here too :toothless )
MrS |
|
|
|
|
