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The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 86)
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| electronicmaji2 |
it was the soldiers fault then the soldier would have gotten court martialed im pretty sure he was it was not ordered by the goverment for him to be killed that is what is called a rogue much different fro ma terrorist orginization even if it is not a accident
Israel has never commanded there soldiers to kill innocent bystanding civilians
are you saying they are
*comander speakign to his soldier*
kill every child you see follow the terrorist target to a bus full of people then throw a grenade in there to nutralise him
do you really think israel gives commands like that? |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
This is brilliant!!!
I missed out on the IDF thread as there was no way I was gonna read thru 1000000s of pages but now I've caught this one right at the start!!!
This is gonna do in wonders for me post count WOO HOO!!!
:D |
Yea, but this is the pro-Israeli thread. If you want to say something bad against Israel you'll still have to do it in that other thread.
Might not help that post count afterall then...
:p ;) |
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| Palestinian |
So now that we've destroyed your arguement about 'accidents' you resort to saying that the military doesn't order commands like this. News flash, it doesn't have to order them. They happen anyway, when your life is being run by a military, this happens a lot. And ordering them to be on Palestinian land makes them guilty enough.
| quote: | www.palestinemonitor.org
Israeli Soldier Sentenced Only to Four Months for the Deliberate Killing of an Innocent Palestinian: One of the harshest sentences given to an Israeli soldier during the Second Intifada
February 24, 2005
Yesterday an Israeli military tribunal sentenced an Israeli Occupation Forces soldier to four and a half months for the killing of Nabil Ahmed Jaradat, a 25-year-old Palestinian man, on 8 June 2003.
The soldier, who served in the Golani unit of the Israeli Occupation Forces, confessed to opening fire on Jaradat’s car because the car had been forced to travel on a muddy side road on its way to Jenin due to Israeli road closures. According to the IOF rules of engagement, the proper procedure for dealing with a Palestinian car attempting to bypass a closure was first to fire warning shots and then to shoot out the tires.
Instead, the soldier used his M-16 with a telescopic sight to shoot Jaradat in the head and kill him.
Despite the seemingly deliberate nature of the killing, the soldier was charged only with causing death by negligence, giving false information, and improper behavior. Such charges are outrageously lenient, but compared to similar cases, the sentence given by the tribunal was one of the harshest given to an Israeli soldier during the Second Intifada.
Similarly lenient charges were brought against an Israeli army captain accused of killing 13-year-old Palestinian schoolgirl Iman al-Hams on 6 October 2004. The girl was found dead with over 17 bullets in her body, and an Israeli military communications tape confirmed that she had been shot deliberately, even though the soldiers know she was a young girl, and then shot again at close range.*
For the killing of the little girl, the captain was only indicted on two counts of illegal use of weapons, obstruction of justice (for his initial false report), behavior unbecoming an officer, and the improper use of authority that endangered others.
Lea Tsemel, the Israeli lawyer representing Iman’s family, was angered by the light charges. She said, “I believe that the commander and the soldiers who fired should all have been charged with murder.”
Tsemel explained that even if the captain were found guilty on all counts, “the Israeli court could sentence him to as little as three years.”
Such lenience for the deliberate killing of innocent Palestinians by Israelis is a clear case of discrimination. If a Palestinian had deliberately shot and killed an Israeli, he would almost certainly have been sentenced to life in prison by an Israeli court.
Such selective leniency is racist, illegal by international humanitarian standards, and further institutionalizes the sense of immunity that emboldens both soldiers and Israeli settlers to violently abuse innocent Palestinians without fear of serious repercussions.
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* A soldier in the nearby watchtower was recorded saying, “It’s a little girl. She’s running defensively eastward, a girl of about 10. She’s behind the embankment, scared to death.”
Four minutes later it was reported that the girl had been shot. The watchtower reported, “I think that one of the positions took her out... She’s not moving now.”
The tape records the captain saying, “I and another soldier... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill...” After a pause he reported, “Situation report—we fired and killed her... I also confirm the kill.” |
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| Palestinian |
| quote: | Originally posted by electronicmaji2
accidently
the christians who dont beleive the land doest belong to israel have a blatant disrespect for the bible .... |
Actually they have a good understanding of the New Testament. The coming of Christ, His death, and Resurrection was a new covenant made with everyone in the world, and the old covenant with the Jews became, in the words of the New Testament, "obsolete".
I hope we won't resort to religious debate now:gsmile: |
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| electronicmaji2 |
gods word stays the same today
forever
and forever
none of Gods contracts ever become obsolete and specifically not one to the his choosen ones a promise is a promise and it can never be broken
your comparing the millitary again accidently or on purpose kill innocents either way they are not ordered to they are not payed extra money to do it and the mostl ikely end up court martialed if any evidence is shown to a group whos main focus point is to attack innocents at any costs pays extra money to martyrs who kill more jews and main statement is that "(we) are for the irradication of jews and christians all over the world especially civilians women and children"
you really think you can compare the two
if you do then you i hope the israelian army doesnt block you acess to the hospital when they take you into the mental ward :tongue3
palistenean land
no land is yours if your goverment supports terrorism
you are no longer in the eyes of the civlized world a state you are just a bunch of ragtag savages with bombs and should be dealt with as such
havent I told you? accept it already! |
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| shaolin_Z |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
electronicmaji2, first your extremely negative attitude, lack of tolerance and ignorance were offensive and annoying, now you're just retarted and funny, especially since all your misinformed and biased arguments have been destroyed and now you're arguind on religious grounds.
I never thought a racsist religious funtamentalist nutjob could be great entertainment
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: |
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| Escobar |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
:whip: Now I'm positive you're in denial and incredibly biased. That's the worst response ever. This guy was far from being a terrorist. He was a PEACE ACTIVISIT . Actions like this make it pretty clear just how much Israel is in favour of peace.
I've already recognized it as a tragic event in another threat so NO, YOU'RE NOT RIGHT! |
This MORON chose to go into a the "foxhole". No one told him to do that. He went there to act as a human shield...and indeed he got his wish. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Yea, but this is the pro-Israeli thread. If you want to say something bad against Israel you'll still have to do it in that other thread.
Might not help that post count afterall then...
:p ;) |
Here ya go Yam, you want silly posts go take a look at what this joker writes!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, this is SUPPOSED to be the pro-Israel thread but as we now enter page 5, nobody has still got anythin good to say about it! As soon as they do I'll be able to argue back and I'll be over a 1000 posts in next to no time! :D |
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| Escobar |
Allright...
you want it you got it...
I was trying to support Israel in the other thread, but people there are so brainwashed by left-wing lalaland Politics that they deny to face facts.
This is not brain surgery....never trade land for peace...it simply doesnt work.
There are other ways to peace, those must be explored.
There is a historical fact that must be established at the outset and that is, there has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as Palestine. And the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to what is now known as Israel, is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language.
There has never been a Palestinian state governed by Arabs. Nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964.
In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State known as Israel.
On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct
"Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948, has ever ruled as a sovereign nation on the land known as Palestine.
A Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs and more than 2000 years before the birth of Islam. The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world to the land known as Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.
Furthermore, every time there is an archaeological dig in this area, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish people have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient texts... all support this claim.
Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certainly dwarfs any claims of others in the region, including the Arabs. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many others who conquered this land are also extinct. And if any were here none could claim the unbroken line the Jews have to the land.
And if you want to talk religious claims, fine. G-d gave the Land of Israel to the Jewish people!!!!
Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993. It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.
In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. He said:
"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."
And, please do not forget....Arafat the Muslim, who by the way wasn’t even an Arab, has no greater claim Jerusalem than the Eskimos.
For sake of argument, let us all accept the premise that the Qu'ran is a perfect document, then why doesnit it mention Jerusalem even once? Why is it when Muslims pray, the turn towards Mecca and we Jew's turn towards Jerusalem???
The land of Israel is theirs...period....the land mass represents less than 1/2 of 1% of all the land in the middle east....leave them alone, they mean no harm to anyone and they want no harm to their families....but do not be mistaken by them wanting peace, as a sign of weakness.
If you mess with them, they will bust you up!
Right Yassin??:D |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Escobar
Allright...
you want it you got it...
I was trying to support Israel in the other thread, but people there are so brainwashed by left-wing lalaland Politics that they deny to face facts.
This is not brain surgery....never trade land for peace...it simply doesnt work.
There are other ways to peace, those must be explored.
There is a historical fact that must be established at the outset and that is, there has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as Palestine. And the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to what is now known as Israel, is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated. |
What difference does it make whether thats true or not? The important fact is, there is one now...
| quote: | | There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. |
How can there not be a Palestinian culture when they've been through what they've been through together?!
| quote: | | There has never been a Palestinian state governed by Arabs. Nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964. |
Until '67 it was pan-Arabism
| quote: | | In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State known as Israel. |
Like I said, what difference does it make? Are you arguing that the West Bank and Gaza belong to Israel?! Also, Israel was only created as a state in 1948 so what's your point?
| quote: | On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct
"Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” |
Wow, a pan-Arab nationalist making that comment in 1977 whatever next eh?!
| quote: | | No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948, has ever ruled as a sovereign nation on the land known as Palestine. |
Well if you want to base your argument round religion thats fine but dont expect any serious debate. Plus, Israel in biblical times was one, merely a Kingdom, and two, covered nothing like the amount of land it is claimed to have covered (and archeology proves that) Also, what difference does it make?
| quote: | A Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs and more than 2000 years before the birth of Islam. The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world to the land known as Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.
Furthermore, every time there is an archaeological dig in this area, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish people have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient texts... all support this claim. |
Well thats bollox for a start. Even if that were true, are you really taht ing stupid to put forward the notion that every race on Earth has the right to the land where there ancestors were supposedly from?! Can you see the problems with having that principle!?
| quote: | | Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certainly dwarfs any claims of others in the region, including the Arabs. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many others who conquered this land are also extinct. And if any were here none could claim the unbroken line the Jews have to the land. |
Ever heard of squatters rights? How you can justify forcing people who have lived there for 100s of years out of their homes is beyond me it really is :rolleyes:
| quote: | | And if you want to talk religious claims, fine. G-d gave the Land of Israel to the Jewish people!!!! |
Mate your whole argument hinges on your whacko religious beliefs...
| quote: | Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993. It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.
In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. He said:
"Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel." |
Well Arafat is dead and makes him irrelevent from current affairs in the region?
| quote: | | For sake of argument, let us all accept the premise that the Qu'ran is a perfect document, then why doesnit it mention Jerusalem even once? Why is it when Muslims pray, the turn towards Mecca and we Jew's turn towards Jerusalem??? |
Your an idiot if you cant make the distinction between Arab and Muslim. You've heard of the PFLP right? Well that was established by a Christian (and if I am not mistaken Jerusalem is special for Christians because of Jesus, which because of Jesus would make it special for Muslims too)
| quote: | | The land of Israel is theirs...period....the land mass represents less than 1/2 of 1% of all the land in the middle east....leave them alone, they mean no harm to anyone and they want no harm to their families....but do not be mistaken by them wanting peace, as a sign of weakness. |
Let them have Israel, let the Arabs have West Bank and Gaza... |
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| George Smiley |
Just to sum up...
Israel has no right to be in the West Bank or Gaza. Israel is now established and that should not be changed. Whatever it says in some rediculous religious texts, it does not escape the fact that in the West Bank and Gaza now, that is where the Arabs live. They are their now and that is where their homes are and nobody has the right to take that away from them (what is the difference between some Israeli arguing for the annexion of West Bank and a Palestinian terrorist arguing for the destruction of Israel?) |
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| Escobar |
Ok,
Once again I gave you facts...which in your reply, you did not use any hard evidence to disprove it. you simply give your opinions..which you have a right to. But it wont change the facts.
| quote: | | What difference does it make whether thats true or not? The important fact is, there is one now... |
It makes a huge difference. This is the base for their claims. Since it is bill..I think everything else is void.
| quote: | | How can there not be a Palestinian culture when they've been through what they've been through together?! |
Their "culture" is the same as Jordan, Syria, Egypt...
| quote: | | Well if you want to base your argument round religion thats fine but dont expect any serious debate. Plus, Israel in biblical times was one, merely a Kingdom, and two, covered nothing like the amount of land it is claimed to have covered (and archeology proves that) Also, what difference does it make? |
I am not basing anything on religion, I was simply making another argument, it is not the base to what I believe in.
You call me an idiot, but you obviously didn't learn your history, the "kingdom of Israel" (which you so nicely put it) cover alot more land then what the country of today has. This is when you left wing ******s start making up...
And you callit "merely" a Kingdom...what is that supposed to mean?? that is isn't goo enough?? WTF is the UK, or all the other Arab "Kingdoms" of today??
| quote: | | Well thats bollox for a start. Even if that were true, are you really taht ing stupid to put forward the notion that every race on Earth has the right to the land where there ancestors were supposedly from?! Can you see the problems with having that principle!? |
Why is it Bolox??? Because you say so??
Again, I have not made up any of this,if you actualy go learn some history like I did, you will find out for yourself..in the meantime,you have no arguments.. |
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