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The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 7)
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View this Thread in Original format
| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by mps242
LMFAO!!!! You have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING OF HISTORY. It wasn't Zionists you dimwit, IT WAS EGYPT AND JORDAN!!!! Israel wasn't occupying palestinian territories until '67... why was there no state before then? BECAUSE EGYPT AND JORDAN CLAIMED THE LAND!!! The idea of a separate palestinian state was KILLED by *ARABS* until the *ISRAELIS* put it on the table fairly recently...
No wonder you're so confused about this whole situation... |
You must be one dumb to think that the palestinians ONLY LIVED IN WEST BANK AND GAZA!!!!!!!!!!
You fail to forget all the towns and villiages that were in Israel Proper before its formation inhabited by indeginous farmers and palestinians, including a very few minority ultra orthodix jews(who by the way do not beleive in an Only jewish state as it states int he torah that only during the second coming should this take place)
And this is BEFORE 1948!!!!!!!!!! BEFORE!!! After Israel was formed, even more palestinians land was taken and annexed for ISraeli's who wanted MORE LAND
Im sick of reiterating these historical peices to people who think they know their . read up on your history of that region its more than just 1967!
| quote: |
Well, that and you know that your arguments is totally BS... pretty tough to argue that killing 4 children under 12 and an 8 month pregnant woman are agressors... |
Yeah, that one day when two palestinians killed four people... meanwhile EVERY ing day palestinians have to go through the same thing that settler family went through.
You can NEVER equate the suffering...ever
| quote: |
It's all about who the intended target is... If you don't understand that little nugget of information, you probably shouldn't be commenting on issues of war and peace... |
Israel has INTENTIONALLY targetted civilians and even children many times. I have postesd it MANY times since this pol forum was made ( ITS CALLED STATE TERRORISM)... do a search and quit your self-righteous arrogance.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| Palestinian |
| This has been the longest lasting occupation of the 20th century. If the Palestinians didn't fight back, Israel would have kept building settlements and confiscating land. Before the First Intifada occured in 1987, there were no suicide bombers from the Occupied Territories, but Israel was building settlements, confiscating land, and abusing Palestinian human rights. Nothing would have changed if the Intifada did not happen because it was the Intifada that got people to realize all over the world that the occupation is harmful and should end. The Intifada made the costs of the occupation greater than the benefits. Therefore, Israel needed to quell the Intifada and did so successfully with the Oslo Peace Process. When the Intifada ended in 1993, Israel resumed building settlements and confiscating land and abusing human rights. After nine years, the Intifada started again. If the Intifada ends, it is reasonable to believe, for the Palestinians, that Israel will resume their Occupation practices. This is why resistance must go on. Israel has now been trying to quell the Second Intifada by killing, confiscating, demolishing, separating, and driving the Palestinians out of their homes like they did in 1948 and 1967 and onwards. Suicide bombers are a method of inflicting pain on the Israelis out of desire for revenge and desire to fight for the survival of the people. Israel's practices motivates suicide bombers to inflict pain. The conditions in the refugee camps are horrifying and cannot be solved with occupation. Israel must end the occupation if it wants peace. It must treat the Palestinians equally. Israel is responsible for killing civilians if it demolishes homes and bombs a place that has a wanted man but kills others along with him. It is also responsible for killing civilians when it imposes collective punishment by punishing everyone in a particular community with homes demilitions, tree uprooting, curfews, random shootings of warning that kill someone on his or her roof or someone looking out the window. Anyone who looks out their window will be shot and this has happened occasionally. This will never lead to peace. Palestinians have made it clear that ending the occupation is what they want. This is what Israel, the fourth strongest military in the world, will have to ultimately do. This Intifada will go on until the costs of Occupation outweigh the benefits and Israel withdraws. Otherwise, there will be no choice but a one binational secular and democratic state where Palestinians will fight for the vote. This will happen if Israel makes the two state solution impossible by destroying the would be Palestinian state by confiscating more land and demolishing more homes. |
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| TRANCEEEE |
hey guys ... I've made this simple for the idiots and ignorant ppl on this thread
another side of the story...
I think the reason why the palestinians execute most of their attacks on the isreali's via suicide bombing is becasue:
A) hatrad, which by all means they are entitled to, after all they've been through
B) they have no army, thus direct civilan combats neccessary, this could only be accomplished by civilan vs civilan combat, which is the safest way for the attacker (suicide bombers) to cause damage
C) by doing this, they spread fear among isrealis, and therefore unstabalize their buisness's n economical status to some degree.
ITS THE BEST WAY TO FIGHT WITH NO ARMY, THEY SHOULD KEEP DOING IT AS LONG AS ISREAL IS SLUGHTERING THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND DESTROYING THIER HOUSES!
AND THEY ARE ENTITLED TO SAVE THEIR LAND N DEFEND IT AGAINT OCCUPATION.
NOW LOOK AT ISREAL, best trained army in the world, occupying another country and killing civilians !!!
NOW ALL YOU ISREALS, i've opened a small corner of the situation. HOW IS THIS FAIR ??????????????????????? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Reverend_Trance
Since Cyrus is stressing the current situation,I will try to be brief. the Palestinians HAD a NATION in 1948 under U.N. Partition Plan 181 which went into effect Nov. 29, 1947. (Personaly I cant find a map of this carved up Isreali and Palestinian nation, if some one could find and post) |
Here you go Reverend Trance:
What's sad is that the Arab state in Palestine would have possessed the majority of the arable land along the Tiberis and the Mediterranean. Much of the land ceded to the Jews in 1947 were in Beersheeba and Negev, much of it being desert tundra at the time.
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Palestine was a province of the ottoman empire...i dont recall it being recognized by the international community as a federal nation.
There were plans to create a nation during the partition. ZIonists have since then tried to stop it until recently
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Quite the contrary cyrus, mps is correct. The Jews quite willingly accepted the UNSCOP and United Nations ratification of the partition plan of 1947, and approached the Arab states numerous times suing for peace and a recognition of a Palestinian (well at the time it was Arab) state alongside an Israeli one. As a matter of fact, if one were to look at the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel in 1948:
| quote: |
ERETZ-ISRAEL (the Land of Israel) was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.
After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.
Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses. Pioneers, ma'pilim (immigrants coming to Eretz-Israel in defiance of restrictive legislation) and defenders, they made deserts bloom, revived the Hebrew language, built villages and towns, and created a thriving community controlling its own economy and culture, loving peace but knowing how to defend itself, bringing the blessings of progress to all the country's inhabitants, and aspiring towards independent nationhood.
In the year 5657 (1897), at the summons of the spiritual father of the Jewish State, Theodore Herzl, the First Zionist Congress convened and proclaimed the right of the Jewish people to national rebirth in its own country.
This right was recognized in the Balfour Declaration of the 2nd November, 1917, and re-affirmed in the Mandate of the League of Nations which, in particular, gave international sanction to the historic connection between the Jewish people and Eretz-Israel and to the right of the Jewish people to rebuild its National Home.
The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people — the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe — was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the community of nations.
Survivors of the Nazi holocaust in Europe, as well as Jews from other parts of the world, continued to migrate to Eretz-Israel, undaunted by difficulties, restrictions and dangers, and never ceased to assert their right to a life of dignity, freedom and honest toil in their national homeland.
In the Second World War, the Jewish community of this country contributed its full share to the struggle of the freedom- and peace-loving nations against the forces of Nazi wickedness and, by the blood of its soldiers and its war effort, gained the right to be reckoned among the peoples who founded the United Nations.
On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable.
This right is the natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate, like all other nations, in their own sovereign State.
ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel".
THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
THE STATE OF ISRAEL is prepared to cooperate with the agencies and representatives of the United Nations in implementing the resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the economic union of the whole of Eretz-Israel.
WE APPEAL to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building-up of its State and to receive the State of Israel into the comity of nations.
WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
WE APPEAL to the Jewish people throughout the Diaspora to rally round the Jews of Eretz-Israel in the tasks of immigration and upbuilding and to stand by them in the great struggle for the realization of the age-old dream — the redemption of Israel.
PLACING OUR TRUST IN THE ALMIGHTY, WE AFFIX OUR SIGNATURES TO THIS PROCLAMATION AT THIS SESSION OF THE PROVISIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE, ON THE SOIL OF THE HOMELAND, IN THE CITY OF TEL-AVIV, ON THIS SABBATH EVE, THE 5TH DAY OF IYAR, 5708 (14TH MAY,1948).
David Ben-Gurion
Rabbi Kalman Kahana
Aharon Zisling
Yitzchak Ben Zvi
Saadia Kobashi
Daniel Auster
Rachel Cohen
David Zvi Pinkas
Mordekhai Bentov
Moshe Kolodny
Eliyahu Berligne
Rabbi Yitzchak Meir Levin
Eliezer Kaplan
Fritz Bernstein
Abraham Katznelson
Rabbi Wolf Gold
Meir David Loewenstein
Felix Rosenblueth
Meir Grabovsky
David Remez
Yitzchak Gruenbaum
Zvi Luria
Berl Repetur
Dr. Abraham Granovsky
Golda Myerson
Mordekhai Shattner
Nachum Nir
Ben Zion Sternberg
Eliyahu Dobkin
Zvi Segal
Bekhor reet
Meir Wilner-Kovner
Rabbi Yehuda Leib Hacohen Fishman
Moshe Shapira
Zerach Wahrhaftig
Moshe Shertok
Herzl Vardi
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It's quite clear that the Jews willingly accepted a Palestinian state. As a matter of fact, the biggest mistake the Palestinians made were to entrust their fate into hands of the Arab League. It's quite clear that the Arab League was only concerned with their own ambitions as opposed to the Palestinian cause. The Grand Mufti in Egypt was determined to control the Palestinian Arab resistance and ensure that the fate of Palestine remained in Palestinian hands, however, the Arab League thwarted his efforts by refusing to cede funding and control of organized militias and by refusing to create a Palestinian government in exile. Only Egypt came to the Mufti's aid solely out of suspicion for Abdullah of Jordan's motives to keep Jerusalem and portions of Central Palestine for himself (an extension of trans-Jordan I suppose).
At any rate, I suggest you all read about the history of Palestine from 1945-1967. It's not boring I tell you. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
You must be one dumb to think that the palestinians ONLY LIVED IN WEST BANK AND GAZA!!!!!!!!!!
You fail to forget all the towns and villiages that were in Israel Proper before its formation inhabited by indeginous farmers and palestinians, including a very few minority ultra orthodix jews(who by the way do not beleive in an Only jewish state as it states int he torah that only during the second coming should this take place)
And this is BEFORE 1948!!!!!!!!!! BEFORE!!! After Israel was formed, even more palestinians land was taken and annexed for ISraeli's who wanted MORE LAND
Im sick of reiterating these historical peices to people who think they know their . read up on your history of that region its more than just 1967!
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Cyrus, as of 1946 there were 1.269 million Arabs in Palestine as opposed to 608,000 Jews. The Jews owned 1.6 million Dunams or about 20% of the cultivable land. The 1947 Partition plan roughly reflected the demographics of land ownership at the time while giving deference to the fact that the Palestinians owned the majority of the land. This partly explains why the Jews were partitioned large portions of sparsely populated non-arable land as opposed to concetrated masses of territory. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Cyrus, as of 1946 there were 1.269 million Arabs in Palestine as opposed to 608,000 Jews. The Jews owned 1.6 million Dunams or about 20% of the cultivable land. The 1947 Partition plan roughly reflected the demographics of land ownership at the time while giving deference to the fact that the Palestinians owned the majority of the land. This partly explains why the Jews were partitioned large portions of sparsely populated non-arable land as opposed to concetrated masses of territory. |
Can you explain how 700,000 arabs were forced out of their homes then? There was obviously a contigency plan formed by Irgun and Stern prior to the formation of Israel...there were zionist intentions to rid the arabs.
| quote: | David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff.
From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978:
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." |
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| Palestinian |
In November of 1947, the UN passed Resolution 181 for Partition. The Jewish Zionist Congress accepted it, the Palestinians rejected it. (It should also be mentioned that many Zionist leaders rejected it also, including Menachem Begin who called the resolution "null and void"). Communal war broke out the next day. The Zionist Jews took this opportunity to expell thousands of Palestinians by initiating massacres and village decimation. 400 villages were destroyed. 700,000 Palestinians expelled. In July of 1948 alone, 100,000 Palestinians were expelled. The massacre of Deir Yassin sparked much of the fleeing. Jewish leaders realized that expelling Palestinians was good for the Jewish state because the goal was maintaining Jewish majority (same goal it is today). And the Arab armies of the other Arab countries didn't attack until way after war had started in Palestine. War started in November, the Arab armies attacked in May, when Israel was declared a state.
Let's go over WHY the Palestinians rejected Resolution 181.
Palestine's Jewish population was under 8% of the total population as of 1914?
Palestine's Jewish population in 1947 was increased to 33% of its total population.
Jewish land ownership in Palestine was under 7% as of 1947?
The US arm twisted the arms of dozens of small nations to get their support for the partitioning of Palestine. For example, Greece and France were threatened with a foreign aid cutoff, Liberia was threatened with a rubber embargo plus Firestone Company's president threatened to revoke his company's planned expansion in Liberia, bribing several Latin American countries by hinting at the possibility that the U.S. might fund the construction of a Pan-American highway, ... etc.
US Supreme Court justices, Frank Murphy and Felix Frankfurter, contacted the Philippine's ambassador in Washington D.C. and sent telegrams to the Philippine's president, Carlos Rojas, warning that a vote against the proposed partition plan would alienate millions of Americans.
And the UN proposed 60% of the land for a Jewish state.
If you are an American, based on the above facts, would you concede sovereignty and land ownership over 60% of your country to a foreign minority, such as Canadians and Mexicans, who owns under 7% of US's lands?
If you are an Israeli and assuming that as of 1947 Israeli Jews constituted a 2/3 majority of the total population, owned and operated 93% of Israel's lands, and contributed 55%-60% of the Israeli Gross Domestic Product (GDP), would you accept a UN IMPOSED partition of Israel in favor of an alien minority?
It should be NOTED that currently Palestinian-Israeli citizens make up 20-22% of the total Israeli population, so is it acceptable for the UN to partition Israel in a favorable way to its Palestinian-Israeli minority? As an Israeli Jew, would you accept a UN imposed partition of your country?
This is why the Palestinians rejected partition of their land. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
In November of 1947, the UN passed Resolution 181 for Partition. The Jewish Zionist Congress accepted it, the Palestinians rejected it. (It should also be mentioned that many Zionist leaders rejected it also, including Menachem Begin who called the resolution "null and void"). Communal war broke out the next day. The Zionist Jews took this opportunity to expell thousands of Palestinians by initiating massacres and village decimation. 400 villages were destroyed. 700,000 Palestinians expelled. In July of 1948 alone, 100,000 Palestinians were expelled. The massacre of Deir Yassin sparked much of the fleeing. Jewish leaders realized that expelling Palestinians was good for the Jewish state because the goal was maintaining Jewish majority (same goal it is today). And the Arab armies of the other Arab countries didn't attack until way after war had started in Palestine. War started in November, the Arab armies attacked in May, when Israel was declared a state.
Let's go over WHY the Palestinians rejected Resolution 181.
Palestine's Jewish population was under 8% of the total population as of 1914?
Palestine's Jewish population in 1947 was increased to 33% of its total population.
Jewish land ownership in Palestine was under 7% as of 1947?
The US arm twisted the arms of dozens of small nations to get their support for the partitioning of Palestine. For example, Greece and France were threatened with a foreign aid cutoff, Liberia was threatened with a rubber embargo plus Firestone Company's president threatened to revoke his company's planned expansion in Liberia, bribing several Latin American countries by hinting at the possibility that the U.S. might fund the construction of a Pan-American highway, ... etc.
US Supreme Court justices, Frank Murphy and Felix Frankfurter, contacted the Philippine's ambassador in Washington D.C. and sent telegrams to the Philippine's president, Carlos Rojas, warning that a vote against the proposed partition plan would alienate millions of Americans.
And the UN proposed 60% of the land for a Jewish state.
If you are an American, based on the above facts, would you concede sovereignty and land ownership over 60% of your country to a foreign minority, such as Canadians and Mexicans, who owns under 7% of US's lands?
If you are an Israeli and assuming that as of 1947 Israeli Jews constituted a 2/3 majority of the total population, owned and operated 93% of Israel's lands, and contributed 55%-60% of the Israeli Gross Domestic Product (GDP), would you accept a UN IMPOSED partition of Israel in favor of an alien minority?
It should be NOTED that currently Palestinian-Israeli citizens make up 20-22% of the total Israeli population, so is it acceptable for the UN to partition Israel in a favorable way to its Palestinian-Israeli minority? As an Israeli Jew, would you accept a UN imposed partition of your country?
This is why the Palestinians rejected partition of their land. |
Nice post Palestinian!
Long live the struggle for freedom |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Can you explain how 700,000 arabs were forced out of their homes then? There was obviously a contigency plan formed by Irgun and Stern prior to the formation of Israel...there were zionist intentions to rid the arabs. |
Israel most certainly embarked upon a campaign of Arab expulsion after the war started ... but not before. I'm not trying to justify the ultimate morality of what the Israeli's did, but one should bear in mind the context of the situation (as certain people may try to justify Palestinian terrorist attacks in today's context?). It was an immoral act in the face of an immoral situation. The Jewish situation in 1948 was one of annihiliation, not simply oppression. Looking at the situation from an outsiders viewpoint, one cannot help but be amazed at the precarious situation Israel was in at the start of 1948. Surrounded from all sides by hostile Arab nations and a united Arab League bent upon Isreali destruction, a Jewish population completely dwarfed by the Arab population available for conscription alone, very little territory/ formal organization to work with, etc. Let's face it, during the war the Arabs were motivated to drive the Jews into the "sea", and the Jews were motivated to capture as much Jewish inhabited territory as possible in order to acheive a homogenous state with defensible borders.
But I'm getting ahead of myself. There were two Arab Israeli wars in 1948. The first started from mid-may to June. The Israelis managed to repel the Arab invasions into Israeli territory after which the UN peacekeeping efforts brought about a truce which both sides accepted. The truce ended when Egypt and Syria refused to extend it which led to war from July 6-19th. It was during this time of warfare that Israel took control of western Galilee and Negev from the Arab League. Then there was a bunch of UN mediation, followed by a LEHI assassination of a UN negotiator who wanted Israel to return either negev or galilee, and finlly armistice lines were drawn out according to these borders:
During the time period of the Arab-Israeli war of 1948, of the 860,000 Palestinians living in 1948 Israel, 133,000 remained, 400,000-450,000 were expelled or fled, and the rest went to Jordan/Egypt/Syria/Lebanon proper. So indeed there was a concerted Israeli effort to expand the Jewish state once the war started for the sake of survivability/ambition/whatever other factors there were, however, this doesn't change the fact that the Jews were content with the UN partition plan, and that after the commencment of the war, the morality of Jewish motivations/actions were no different than Arab motivations/actions.
Ultimately, my understanding of the whole situation is that the Palestinian people were tragically betrayed by the Arab states in 1948 and summarily subjected to the unfortunate circumstances of war at the behest of political ambition.
By the way, I just found a graph of the population distribution during 1946:
Personally I think the UN partition plan was quite fair in balancing out contiguous borders with population density and owned arable land. Oh well .... |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Palestinian
In November of 1947, the UN passed Resolution 181 for Partition. The Jewish Zionist Congress accepted it, the Palestinians rejected it. (It should also be mentioned that many Zionist leaders rejected it also, including Menachem Begin who called the resolution "null and void"). Communal war broke out the next day. The Zionist Jews took this opportunity to expell thousands of Palestinians by initiating massacres and village decimation. 400 villages were destroyed. 700,000 Palestinians expelled. In July of 1948 alone, 100,000 Palestinians were expelled. The massacre of Deir Yassin sparked much of the fleeing. Jewish leaders realized that expelling Palestinians was good for the Jewish state because the goal was maintaining Jewish majority (same goal it is today).
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Now you're getting ahead of yourself. What "communal war" broke out the next day? What expulsions were carried out the "next day"? While Begin may have rejected the partition Ben-Gurion firmly established that Israel would accept the partition. And the Israeli declaration of Independance did not come until after 6 months of the UN partition plan. Additionally you fail to mention Arab irregulars who took initiative to attack Jewish settlements and convoys especially along the Jerusalem road.
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And the Arab armies of the other Arab countries didn't attack until way after war had started in Palestine. War started in November, the Arab armies attacked in May, when Israel was declared a state.
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Ok so what offenses did the Hagana embark upon? Are you trying to tell me that the Arab league mobilizations were NOT dependant upon the UN partition plan??? Let me remind you that it was only on May 14 that Ben-Gurion proclaimed the state of Israel to exist within the boundaries provided by UNSCOP and plans were drawn up by the Arab League in April and carried out in May after the declaration and after the partition plan. They were NOT in response to any attacks by LEHI or Irgun attacks.
| quote: |
Let's go over WHY the Palestinians rejected Resolution 181.
Palestine's Jewish population was under 8% of the total population as of 1914?
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As of 1914 perhaps, but as of 1914 there was no discernable "palestinian" population.
| quote: |
Palestine's Jewish population in 1947 was increased to 33% of its total population.
Jewish land ownership in Palestine was under 7% as of 1947?
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And 20% of the arable land. They got far less particularly with Jerusalem when the lines were drawn.
| quote: |
The US arm twisted the arms of dozens of small nations to get their support for the partitioning of Palestine. For example, Greece and France were threatened with a foreign aid cutoff, Liberia was threatened with a rubber embargo plus Firestone Company's president threatened to revoke his company's planned expansion in Liberia, bribing several Latin American countries by hinting at the possibility that the U.S. might fund the construction of a Pan-American highway, ... etc.
US Supreme Court justices, Frank Murphy and Felix Frankfurter, contacted the Philippine's ambassador in Washington D.C. and sent telegrams to the Philippine's president, Carlos Rojas, warning that a vote against the proposed partition plan would alienate millions of Americans.
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The general vote was 33 to 13 ... the Soviets even voted for the partition.
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And the UN proposed 60% of the land for a Jewish state.
If you are an American, based on the above facts, would you concede sovereignty and land ownership over 60% of your country to a foreign minority, such as Canadians and Mexicans, who owns under 7% of US's lands?
If you are an Israeli and assuming that as of 1947 Israeli Jews constituted a 2/3 majority of the total population, owned and operated 93% of Israel's lands, and contributed 55%-60% of the Israeli Gross Domestic Product (GDP), would you accept a UN IMPOSED partition of Israel in favor of an alien minority?
It should be NOTED that currently Palestinian-Israeli citizens make up 20-22% of the total Israeli population, so is it acceptable for the UN to partition Israel in a favorable way to its Palestinian-Israeli minority? As an Israeli Jew, would you accept a UN imposed partition of your country?
This is why the Palestinians rejected partition of their land. |
Well in a similar situation, there would be no America, Israel, or Palestine. There was no soverign country in the region prior to 1948. |
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| Palestinian |
Israeli Guards Rape Palestinian Women – Freed Detainee
"'I have been sexually abused and photographed. When I tried to travel to Jordan after my release, Israeli officer dumfounded my with the humiliating photos.."
By Samer Khuwayera & Hanadi Dwaikat
NABLUS - A Palestinian female freed from Israeli detention said more than 15 fellow Palestinian women were raped by Israeli interrogators to force them to confess to charges leveled against them and collaborate with the Israeli intelligence.
"Israeli investigators and intelligence officers keep video tapes of the raping to blackmail the female detainees," she told IslamOnline.net, requesting anonymity.
"I have been sexually abused and photographed. When I tried to travel to Jordan after my release and Israeli intelligence officer dumfounded my with the humiliating photos."
She asserted that this techniques has been used for years by the Israeli interrogators against Palestinian detainees.
"They have used this raping techniques before my detention and continue to use it until today," said the Palestinian woman who spent nine years of her life in Israeli detention.
She asserted that Palestinian women shy away from reporting such "disgrace" due to the sensitivity of the conservative Palestinian community.
The Israelis also, she added, threaten to widely circulate the rape images if any of us take her complains to the public or the press.
The sexual abuse practices are not restricted to detained Palestinian women alone.
In a phone all from an Israeli jail, a Palestinian man told IOL he has not been allowed to put on any cloths since his detention eight months ago.
"I haven't worn my clothes all this period. They (Israeli guards) searched continue to search such around the clock and if we resist they torture us."
Replica
"Israel, through the Shabak, violates the international convention against the torture which stipulates that all parties should take the necessary legislative, administrative and judicial measures to prevent torture under its jurisdiction," said a Palestinian human rights researcher.
Shin Bet, also known as the General Security Services or Shabak, is Israel 's domestic security agency.
"The convention clearly states that parties should not exploit extraordinary circumstances, such as war, a threat to wage war or domestic political instability, as pretexts for torture," Sameh El-Sayehn told IOL.
He asserted that the U.S. soldiers' sexual abuse of Iraqi detainees in Abu Gharib was simply "a replica of a long-running Israeli practice".
"Shabak has more than 25 different torture techniques to extract confessions from Palestinian detainees," El-Sayehn said.
"The nudity technique used by the Americans against Iraqi detainees is a long time Israeli favorite but unfortunately pictured never surfaced to expose the barbarism and brutality of a country bragging about being a democracy oasis."
The pictures of grinning U.S. soldiers posing by a heap of naked Iraqi men revealed last month sparked worldwide outrage that has continued to dog the administration.
U.S. President George W. Bush had denounced the misconduct as "abhorrent, shameless and unacceptable" and apologized for it.
In a damning report presented to the U.S. administration in February, U.S. Major General Antonio Taguba found numerous "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at Abu Gharib.
El-Sayeh indicated that Israeli guards "undress Palestinian female detainees and tie them to beds for long periods."
The situation in men prisons is not less humiliating, added the Palestinian researcher.
"Palestinian men are held naked in front of each other and Israeli soldiers. Those who refuse to take of their clothes are brutally beaten."
At least seven thousands Palestinians, including scores of women, are held by Israeli occupation forces in detention centers and jails.
Mustafa Dirani, a Lebanese recently freed from Israeli detention, told a Tel Aviv court Tuesday, January 27, "I was raped by the [Israeli] soldier. He said he would rape me, and he did."
Source: IslamOnline.net
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UN Partition of Palestine
By Arjan El Fassed Where the Palestinians wrong to reject the UN partition plan?
Prevailing Zionist Myth:
Britain, unable and unwilling to continue its governance of Palestine, requested the United Nations to take steps to resolve the communal conflict between Palestinians and Zionists. In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly resolved, by a two-thirds majority, to endorse the partition of Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state (Resolution No. 181). Israel and its supporters say that the Palestinian rejection of the Partition Plan in 1947 was tantamount to their forfeiture of any future claim to Palestine.
Facts
First, the United Nations was not competent under international law to partition or otherwise dispose of the territory of Palestine against the wishes of the clear majority of its inhabitants. Although Palestine, in 1947, was still subject to a mandate that had legally terminated as a result of the dissolution of the League of Nations, it did not affect its statehood or the sovereignty of its people, so the question of its future government was a matter that fell exclusively within its own domestic jurisdiction and could not become subject to adjudication by the United Nations. The United Nations did not possess any sovereignty nor did it exercise any other right over Palestine. It therefore had no power to partition Palestine or to assign any part of its territory to a religious minority comprised mostly of recent European immigrants in order that they might establish a state of their own.
Second, the Partition Plan has no legal validity. The Partition Plan was adopted by the General Assembly, not the Security Council. Resolutions of the General Assembly have the force of recommendations to member states of the United Nations but do not have any mandatory force. Therefore, the General Assembly vote to accept the recommendations of UNSCOP to partition Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish state did not mean that one or another state was being created over the objections of one of the parties.
The partition plan also violated a very basic principle in international affairs: that of self-determination of peoples, recognised by Article 1 of the United Nations Charter. The carving-out of 55 percent of Palestine for the creation of a Jewish state and the subjection of part of the original inhabitants (who were not Jewish) to its dominion represents a blatant violation of this principle.
Third, the Partition Plan was neither just nor fair. The Partition Plan granted 55 percent of Palestine to the Jews, who at that time comprised only 30 percent of the population, and who owned a mere 6 percent of the land. Within this Jewish state were to have been 407,000 Palestinian Arabs. The Arab state was to comprise only the remaining 34 percent of the land. The major reason the Palestinians rejected the partition resolution was on the grounds of its lack of fairness: it proposed to give the minority population an exclusive and hegemonic right to the majority of the land.
In 1946, the total population of Palestine was 1,972,0000 inhabitants, comprising 1,247,000 Palestinians and 608,000 Jews, as well as 16,000 others (see UN Doc. A/AC 14/32, 11 November 1947, p. 304). The Jewish population was composed primarily of foreign-born immigrants, originating mostly from Poland, Russia and Central Europe. Only one third of these immigrants had acquired Palestinian citizenship (Government of Palestine, Statistical Abstract, 1944-1945, p. 42).
With respect to land ownership, it appears from the government of Palestine's Village Statistics that the Jews then owned 1,491 square kilometers (exclusive of urban property) out of a total of 26,323 square kilometers in Palestine (Appendix IV, to the Report of Sub-Committee 2, UN Doc. A/AC 14/32, 11 November 1947, p. 270.). Thus, Jewish land ownership amounted to 5.6 percent of the total area of the country. In contrast, the Palestinians owned the rest of Palestine, including all the areas that were categorised as public domain. Moreover, the territory allocated to the Jewish state included the coastal plain extending from Akka to Ashdod and other fertile lands, while the Palestinians, an agricultural people, were left mainly with mountainous and arid regions.
Israel's claim that since the Palestinians rejected the partition resolution it therefore has is a claim devoid of any legal foundations. The Palestinian refusal to accept the partition in no way confers upon Israel the right to aggravate a wrong. In other words, the Arab-Israeli war of 1948 could not take away the rights of the Palestinians nor enlarge the rights of the Jews. The United Nations itself affirmed this view when Israel was admitted to the UN by reaffirming its resolutions, which provided for the rights of the Palestinians, including UNGA 181 and UNGA 194.
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