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The ultimate Israel - Palestine Thread (it's all here) (pg. 17)
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| taltul |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Was it good when the Nazi's fenced in the jews in Warsaw???? Afterall, everyone was labelled a "terrorist" when specific uprisings from the ghetto's took place.
Collective punishment is the sad result of the injustices your government has imposed on these people. |
u cant compare today's fence with the situation it was in ghettos...
the fence is to defence ourselves from wild palestinian mentality and also to prevent our army's attacks on your ppl as a answer to bomb-suicides... the higher the fence the less and less citizen's killings from both sides will be [of coz if u will not drop the bombs over it]... so simple, isnt?
as i told u - there is no way to live together like the best friends coz no1 will never forget what we did to each other... so....
LET the Fence BE...
ps: i forgot to add one important thing that i saw many times on tv-frgments when as always u see palestinians runnin away to somewhere with the corpses on the stretchers and suddenly when one of the those who carried the stretcher droped it accidentally the "corpse" became alive and vivid again like it was some miracle and started to run as healthy man with others... i think one thing u r really talented in it is to be a good actors!... dont pretend it didnt happen i saw it for myself...
ps2: i hope also that ppl didnt forget the wild and non human kiling of 2 soldiers who came to Ramalah accidently by lynching them like the predators do to their victim... interesting how do u call it there? "fightin for freedom"? -> "200 ppl against 2 soldiers"?...c'mon... how can u be so fukin middle-ages-like?
if yes - u got a lot of issues to solve guys... really huge issues...
btw, thats the main reason why we want to build high fence after such kind of acts from your "freedom fightin" nation... |
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| tupsox |
Emotional argument time!
Cruelty of the IDF?
Here are some pictures a friend took while at a brutal, oppressive apartheid checkpoint:
http://community.webshots.com/album/156464683ReCMvd
If this is called oppression, what can we even call true oppression? |
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| taltul |
| quote: | Originally posted by tupsox
Emotional argument time!
Cruelty of the IDF?
Here are some pictures a friend took while at a brutal, oppressive apartheid checkpoint:
http://community.webshots.com/album/156464683ReCMvd
If this is called oppression, what can we even call true oppression? |
so true man!!! so true!
the fact is that world doesnt see such kind of things but its feeded up with the pro-palestinian proraganda when they only see our tanks bombin the Gaza just becoz IDf was lookin for some most wanted terorists or as a return-act to the suicides when israeli citizens r killed...
they funniset thing is that terror-groups like Hamas hidin their members whos wanted by IDF in the places and houses of regular citizens [when there r children and wemen amongst them]... so the world will always think that we just know bombin and sendin our soldiers "to kill their citizens on purpose"... |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by taltul
u cant compare today's fence with the situation it was in ghettos...
the fence is to defence ourselves from wild palestinian mentality and also to prevent our army's attacks on your ppl as a answer to bomb-suicides... the higher the fence the less and less citizen's killings from both sides will be [of coz if u will not drop the bombs over it]... so simple, isnt? |
Like ive majorly stated before, collective punishment will only add fuel to the hatred that has been growing there for a long time. This Wall is no different than the wall in Warsaw.. it concentrated people based on their race into a confined land section and seperated them from the other side by physical means. the wall has made it extremely difficult to live a normal life there and has cut off much needed aid and has made transportation much more harder for these pals.
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as i told u - there is no way to live together like the best friends coz no1 will never forget what we did to each other... so....
LET the Fence BE...
ps: i forgot to add one important thing that i saw many times on tv-frgments when as always u see palestinians runnin away to somewhere with the corpses on the stretchers and suddenly when one of the those who carried the stretcher droped it accidentally the "corpse" became alive and vivid again like it was some miracle and started to run as healthy man with others... i think one thing u r really talented in it is to be a good actors!... dont pretend it didnt happen i saw it for myself... |
Ive seen it myself too..
But the ACTUAL corpses far surpass the "fake" corpses that have been shown and reported.
Back to the fence argument.... you would be crying out loud too if you lived in the shoes of a palestinian confined by the wall. You dont feel this way becuase you live in freedom...plain and simple.
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ps2: i hope also that ppl didnt forget the wild and non human kiling of 2 soldiers who came to Ramalah accidently by lynching them like the predators do to their victim... interesting how do u call it there? "fightin for freedom"? -> "200 ppl against 2 soldiers"?...c'mon... how can u be so fukin middle-ages-like?
if yes - u got a lot of issues to solve guys... really huge issues...
btw, thats the main reason why we want to build high fence after such kind of acts from your "freedom fightin" nation... |
They shouldnt have been there. |
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| Cyrus King |
| quote: | Originally posted by tupsox
Emotional argument time!
Cruelty of the IDF?
Here are some pictures a friend took while at a brutal, oppressive apartheid checkpoint:
http://community.webshots.com/album/156464683ReCMvd
If this is called oppression, what can we even call true oppression? |
Oh my god.. that was ing ridiculous..
I cant believe you posted that...do you HONESTLY think that check points are like this?
One pic album... from one checkpoint and you are posting this as if this is the norm??? AHHAHAHAH
I cant even begin to explain how much you are leaving out.
Do you want me to post pics of checkpoints too? |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by tupsox
Emotional argument time!
Cruelty of the IDF?
Here are some pictures a friend took while at a brutal, oppressive apartheid checkpoint:
http://community.webshots.com/album/156464683ReCMvd
If this is called oppression, what can we even call true oppression? |
israeli army chicks are hot! :eyes: :crazy: :D |
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| taltul |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Like ive majorly stated before, collective punishment will only add fuel to the hatred that has been growing there for a long time. This Wall is no different than the wall in Warsaw.. it concentrated people based on their race into a confined land section and seperated them from the other side by physical means. the wall has made it extremely difficult to live a normal life there and has cut off much needed aid and has made transportation much more harder for these pals.
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LOL... thats already your personal problem... u gota understand that u r the only one who ruined all the other oportunities for a normal life and gave rise to the inevitable buildin of the fence...no1 was begin to blow yourself for kilin israeli - no u ll pay the price...
u should learn the most important proverb that is sayin:
"Treat others like u want them to treat you!" - thats where u screwed up guys... and there is no comin back now... whats done is done...
anyway its all for your benefit... try to think why [ actually i explained already why]...
| quote: | Ive seen it myself too..
But the ACTUAL corpses far surpass the "fake" corpses that have been shown and reported. |
as ppl already said to u here - this is rather stupid argument...looks like u tryin to count who killed more and who did less and its kinda petty... u gota think globally... and here comes the real problem - some ppl like Hamas memebers and their supporters [when its the palestinian majority] just dont know/want what is thinkin' - its much easier for them to drop missles and bomb themselves on the street - im sorry but this kind of thinkin/negotiatin doenst fit the nowdays' world's mentality/morale/ethics...
| quote: | | Back to the fence argument.... you would be crying out loud too if you lived in the shoes of a palestinian confined by the wall. You dont feel this way becuase you live in freedom...plain and simple |
i answerded a couple of times already - its up to u...stop suicides / hidin and supportin the Hamas' members in your citizens' houses and instead of this give them to us to judge for all the terror-acts they made and we will stop our operations in Gaza and leave your life in peace... and the last one i forgot - stop be so extremely fanatic... calm yourself before u do smth - it will make u feel better trust me...
thats the factor to all your problems and poverty - u guys just cant calm dowm... [u gota listen to cafe del mar compilations i think it can help who knows maybe i right - this is my advice for u instead of sendin them food and stuff to Gaza u should burn them cds with cafe del mar tunes and gota teach them to chill out themselves]...
| quote: | | They shouldnt have been there |
huuuuge LOL this time... i think its even more "wtf" than "lol"...
HOW can u be so fukin cruel and heartless??? now i definitly see the fence as the best solution... after these your words u HAVE to be fenced tight... i could understand if those 2 soldiers were doin some special mission of seekin the terrorist or smth but c'mon they just drived the wrong way thats all... wonder what u were doin if it was 2 children - in this case u were simply eatin them alive... maaaaan its not about collective punishment - its about collective psychiatrist's and headshrinker's treatment, everyday treatment...
but evem this will not help u to become a normal human beings...
the main thing about it that u have lynched those soldiers without any mercy - i saw that lynch taped, the ppl where runin and shoutin with the blood on their faces like some psychos from the movies... im tellin u its not normal, at all... u could see this kind of things 100000 years ago but not now in 2004... after this kind of most primitive animal-like behaviour u a talkin about prohibition of the fence-buildin... c'mon... lets be realistic - there is no way to calm your anger and hatred... now just keep on burnin the flags if it makes u happy...the fence will be built and there is no way to prohibit it... after all its only for every1's security... a dont even try to bul my head with all the "collective punishment"...wtf?...what punishment do u talkin about??? u gota say thanx that we r doin u a favor and tryin to secure your livin after all the heartless kilings / suicides u did to our nation...
there r "life-limits" and u ve broken them long time ago and keep brokin them now actually... so be quit now when uve got nothin to say and give us to make your life better by fencin your teritory... |
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| taltul |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Oh my god.. that was ing ridiculous..
I cant believe you posted that...do you HONESTLY think that check points are like this?
One pic album... from one checkpoint and you are posting this as if this is the norm??? AHHAHAHAH
I cant even begin to explain how much you are leaving out.
Do you want me to post pics of checkpoints too? |
looks like u pretendin that its a lie... nice try but not this time..
of coz there r some problems with checkin the ids and stuff but mainly the situation is like that u saw on the photos...
it is the norm till the passers start makin the troubles by not doin what they were s'posed to do when passin the checkpoint like: debate with soldiers about nothin, shoutin with no reason, being suspicious or jumpy and tense ans so on... moreover i think that u r lucky by gettin that friendly treament when each day your "fighters for freedom" kill or injured soldiers by shootin or dropin missles on them - if i were u i wouldnt expect the soldiers to be nice with me... so... |
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| tupsox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Oh my god.. that was ing ridiculous..
I cant believe you posted that...do you HONESTLY think that check points are like this?
One pic album... from one checkpoint and you are posting this as if this is the norm??? AHHAHAHAH
I cant even begin to explain how much you are leaving out.
Do you want me to post pics of checkpoints too? |
Oops, wonder how this one got past the news censors:
An Israeli Army soldier comforts a Palestinian woman at the Kalandia checkpoint between Jerusalem and the West Bank town of Ramallah Wednesday Aug. 11, 2004. A West Bank militant detonated a large bomb near Kalandia checkpoint Wednesday, killing two Palestinian men and wounding some 13, including 10 Palestinian civilians and three Israeli border policemen. (AP Photo/Nasser Shiyoukhi) |
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| tupsox |
| quote: | | A West Bank militant detonated a large bomb near Kalandia checkpoint Wednesday, killing two Palestinian men and wounding some 13, including 10 Palestinian civilians and three Israeli border policemen. |
A look at the casualty toll on each side after this bombing underscores another fundamental truth of this conflict: as long as militant Palestinians hate the Jews more than they love their own people, the dream of peace will be nothing more than a dream (very loosely paraphrased from Golda Meir).
This is true of the "insurgents" in Iraq as well. Far more Iraqis have been killed in the various suicide bombings and attacks than Americans. But as long as you're stickin it to the infidel, even if you get just 1, its ok to kill some of your brothers and sisters. Sick. |
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| Palestinian |
| quote: | Originally posted by FederalBI
Yep , ofcourse after your firing f-16 fighters will come and bomb the places that the rockets were launched from. good for Terrortine ( oops Palestine ) |
So you, in your right mind, actually believe that the solution to stopping the rockets which are fired from Beit Hanoun is to destroy Beit Hanoun. There is literally nothing left of it. If someone fired a rocket from a Canadian city into the States, would you suggest that the States destroy the city? I can only conclude that Israel is using these rocket attacks as an excuse for destroying Palestinian villages and building more homes in their settlements. Israel takes the chance to continue its occupation regime to destroy Palestinian morale and destroy any hopes of the two state solution. |
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| Palestinian |
Time to tell Sderot's children the truth
GIDEON LEVY
Ha'aretz, 4 July 2004
What will we tell the children of the kindergarten in Sderot who last week lost their friend Afik Zahavi Ohayon, aged three-and-a-half, who was killed by a Qassam rocket? What can one say to children who lose their classmate this way, next to the kindergarten?
Psychologists, the kindergarten teachers and the parents involved will try to ease the trauma by means of the usual psychological methods. But what if one of the children asks why the Arabs opened fire at them, why they killed Afik? Will we tell them the whole truth, or will we revert to declaiming the worn slogans about the bad Arabs who want to throw us into the sea, compelling us to fight a desperate war of survival whose whole aim is to safeguard the children in the kindergarten?
It is precisely in the wake of such a cruel terrorist attack, which sowed fear through an entire town, that the truth must be told to both children and adults. Only the truth can strengthen their spirit, instead of obscuring matters with empty promises of computers and budgets that will now flow to the town - only after two of its residents were killed - and with talk of an "appropriate military response."
The Qassam rockets were fired at Sderot from its neighbor, Beit Hanun. The kindergarten children have to be told that in Beit Hanun there are already dozens of demolished homes, the homes of innocent people, who paid the price of the previous rockets that were fired at their town. In Beit Hanun there is no work and there is no hope. Anyone who wants to go from Beit Hanun to the only place in the area that is offering work - Israel - encounters a barbed-wire fence. The children of Beit Hanun who go with their parents to visit relatives and friends in Khan Yunis or Rafah face a lengthy and exhausting trip through the checkpoints of the Gaza Strip - a trip whose end no one knows and which could be accompanied by humiliating incidents. On the way, the children pass by the handful of settlements. They see how thousands of Gaza Strip residents have to stop and wait while the settlers' bus passes. When the ice cream truck of the settlement children approaches, the soldier who sees all but is not seen will turn on the red light of the netted traffic lights and traffic will come to a halt, sometimes for hours at a stretch. Palestinian children and adults will sit in the blazing sun in their cars, which they are forbidden to leave, and wait for the soldier's order.
The children of Sderot have to be told that most of their peers on the other side of the fence have never seen a computer and that it's unlikely they will ever see one; that they are compelled to watch soldiers humiliate their parents; and that thousands of children of their age have no home, because the army demolished their homes even though they did nothing wrong, and in some cases even though their parents committed no crime. In Rafah they can see especially harsh scenes. A thousand more people were left homeless by the latest operation alone, people whose meager belongings were crushed and buried by Israeli bulldozers. The children's toys and clothes are also buried under the ruins.
We should explain to the children in Sderot that not far from their homes, more than 2 million Palestinians have been suffering for 37 years under the Israeli occupation, living in a huge prison compound. For the first 20 years of the occupation, most of their neighbors were quiet, submissive subjects. Their parents undoubtedly remember how they swept the streets in Sderot, built the houses there, worked the surrounding fields and washed the dishes in the local cafes and restaurants. They were the menial workers, even in poverty-stricken Sderot. We thought that situation could last for all time.
Another thing the children of Sderot have to be told is that their state killed - albeit not deliberately, and with weapons far more sophisticated than Qassam rockets - about 540 Palestinian children. And they should be reminded that the Palestinians, too, are responding - to an extensive campaign of assassinations in which Israel has killed most of the leaders of the Palestinian organizations, harming innocent people while doing so, a campaign that reached its inglorious peak with the killing of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.
At the same time, their state continues to strengthen the settlements, which are the major obstacle to the attainment of peace with the Palestinians, which alone can put an end to the firing of rockets at Sderot. Two days after the killing of the children's friend Afik, the Finance Committee of the Knesset decided to add another NIS 150 million to the budget for protecting the settlements. Their parents, the great majority of whom voted for right-wing parties in the last election - 33 percent for Likud, 15 percent for Shas and 10 percent for the National Union, as opposed to 3 percent for Labor and 2 percent for Meretz - chose the continuation of this path, which can lead only to the firing of more Qassam rockets at Sderot.
This is the right time to tell the children of Sderot the simple truth: Their neighbors in the Gaza Strip live under an occupation regime, which the residents have decided to fight with force, as people all over the world do in similar situations. Is it cruel on their part? Yes. Is it unjust? You have to ask the children in the kindergarten, after they are told the whole truth. |
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